without telling at what level you can play the infrasonic s this statement does not tell us much, if you mass EQ your JBL subs at 5Hz I am sure they could produce 5Hz, but at 60dB? 80? 100? assuming your ported SUB fals of with 18dB/oct at 22Hz I estimate 80dB@5Hz
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Subwoofers that go below 30 hz for music
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olieb
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There is an ”easy" way to have loud low bass. The solution is a small sealed room. In 30cbm (3x4x2.5m) you get a pressure of 2 Pascal (=94dBspl) from 840ccm displacement volume (that is two long throw 10" drivers, sealed of course), and this would be at any frequency right down to dc.
I leave it as a an exercise to calculate how long you can listen without fainting from carbon dioxide poisoning. ;-)
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Yes, room gain is often forgotten. I get 100dB at 20hz with a single sub in my dedicated listening room. You typically get a much higher value than the CEA/CTA2010 tests tell you in an actual room, as they're measured outside at 2m.
Really?
I hadn't checked but on the basis of listening to a lot of 32' pipes on organs when on choir music tours to various cathedrals I had assumed it was higher since I can hear it rather than just feel it.
Ever checked the harmonic distortion of these tones? The fundamental is barely audible with all the harmonics on top of it...
(I mean the THD of the organ it self)
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Right, and in the case of an organ playing at 16Hz, the harmonics are probably the only thing you're hearing.
It is not harmonic "distortion" if it comes from a musical instrument.
All musical instruments have a combination of overtones which define the sound of that particular instrument. Flutes and whistles are almost pure tones but the characteristic sound of every other instrument is due to the overtones. That includes organ pipes which have a great variety of sounds available.
It is the overtones that define the timbre of an instrument.
The two organs with a full-length 64-foot stop are the Auditorium Organ at Boardwalk Hall in Atlantic City, New Jersey, and the Grand Organ in Sydney Town Hall in Sydney, Australia
64ft can indeed play 8hz notes, i search for it.
I like almost all music from organ to rock
Obviously
How come if it is obvious you got it wrong?Obviously
Feeling good now?
No. Just irritated
You can still call it distortion of the tone it should play.
Even is the distortion is "intended'.
I am quite sure that if the guy making this organ could make its instrument play the tones with less overtones he would do it...
You think????
Why are there so many different stops then? The organ builders built in LOTS of different overtones to create interest and variability.
The only pipes without extra colour added are the "flutes" AFAIK
In the Liverpool Metropolitan Cathedral organ - the first one I have been to younger than me - there are 4565 pipes and it can mimic a large proportion of a traditional orchestra (with various levels of accuracy...)
It isn't the biggest or most complex either.
If you believe that bollox the only musical instruments which don't distort are the flute family.
Robbo99999
Master Contributor
I don't really know what you're saying in your last sentence, but I'm thinking you should probably look at that graph as a best case, given that some have doubts about whether that graph is a bit lenient in it's distortion criteria, but at least you can use that graph as a best case, and as you rightly say "94dB usable output at 20Hz" for the SB2000. You just have to make your judgement call when buying subwoofers, but at least that graph gives you the ability to compare and choose one of the better engineered subwoofers if that's what you can afford. You'd just have to make your own decisions.
Robbo99999
Master Contributor
I suppose when considered with playback of said 16Hz organ note on a playback system of subs, etc, then you might question what is the real world importance of reproducing the 16Hz part of the note when it's the overtones that are higher up that is what is really heard or "experienced" by the listener - and if it was only really the overtones that were important for the 16Hz note on the organ then you might not kill yourself trying to get your stereo to playback 16Hz properly, which might be what @Hayabusa is getting at. I think that's what he's getting at.
I think the hardest thing to figure out is when is it better to just "roll off" the bass as compared to trying to reproduce it poorly with high distortion and high group delay. I don't have the answer for what levels the distortion and group delay start sounding "worse" than not having the very low bass played at all but I have experienced subjectively better sound when poor performing subwoofers have been rolled off below 40 Hz. To be safe you can buy subs with enough SPL at the lowest frequency you need with distortion <3% or so but in most cases that entails very large subs. Interestingly "big" subs with "big" drivers are not particularly expensive if you go the DIY flatpak route but then you do have to put them together and of course the WAF becomes very difficult.
Robbo99999
Master Contributor
I subjectively preferred sub vs just my speakers when I'd first installed it and optimised it, but I didn't rigorously compare them. Most noticeable for movie watching I find. Yep, so that's just me in relation to whether or not they should be rolled off, for me I don't think so. Yes my sub does down to 20Hz in my room at the SPL's I use, and subjectively I preferred in non rigorous testing, lol! I certainly noticed extra dimensions to movie watching, and in bass heavy music I think I remember a bit more detail and presence in the low registers. My sub is not low distortion at 20Hz though, and I've not rolled it off, I'd say I'm ok with it.
Mark
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