Subwoofer with aut on/off + high pass filter or a mini dsp ?

[gasolin75]

Kali Audio has a sub that lets you pick from a multitude of crossovers.

A little expensive 649 euros

 

[abdo123]

You do know a pair of mission LX 3 MK II are ported and rated down to 40hz -6db with a 6.½ midrange/bass unit (think many speakers don't measure as good as they are rated, especially sensitivity and bass something when the bass is down by -6 db), the sub has an 8" woofer and are sealed

Also when the crossover is very low to hear it you need to turn the volume up, and when it's high like 100hz and down the bass have to play a wider range where you might not need to turn it up to hear it as much as when it's from 50hz and down so both could be about the same load, excursion

Whether you have access to an electrical/digital high-pass filter or not, you need to pay attention to the acoustic high-pass of the speakers so you would know the optimum crossover frequency.

Without a measuring microphone, you can only guess what its the acoustic high-pass of your speakers is, in my experience 6.5 inch woofers in sealed enclosures usually have a BW 12db/oct @ 100 Hz acoustical high-pass. so the best thing to do is set the crossover frequency on 100 Hz till you get the microphone.

After you get access to a microphone + digital high-pass filters we will have a different conversation.

 

[gasolin75]

Finally found it

 

[abdo123]

Finally found it
View attachment 158293

This is the subwoofer's MAX output, this says nothing about how flat its frequency response is.

 

[gasolin75]

This is the subwoofer's MAX output, this says nothing about how flat its frequency response is.

Just wanted to se it again, my subwoofer isn't on the list but the 610 is, go for top 10 if you like it loud

I just need to get it adjusted so it matches my amp in the 20's with normal loud recorded music

What would a good price be for a 2012 DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core ?

 

[Ultrasonic]

Also when the crossover is very low to hear it you need to turn the volume up, and when it's high like 100hz and down the bass have to play a wider range where you might not need to turn it up to hear it as much as when it's from 50hz and down so both could be about the same load, excursion

I think you're confusing two unrelated thing here. Yes human hearing is less sensitive at 50 Hz than 100 Hz, and so higher SPLs are needed at 50 Hz to sound as loud as at 100 Hz. However, this is already accounted for during music creation and recording so you don't do do anything with sub gain because of this ie. if 50 Hz and 100 Hz notes are intended to sound as loud as each other then the recorded signal level at 50 Hz is higher to achieve this.

When a combination of high and low-pass filters are used to minimise overlap of sound from main speakers and subwoofer then obptimal subwoofer gain is basicially unrelated to crossover frequency. In the situation where there is substantial overlap as you may have, then you may well find you want to adjust the sub gain when you vary the sub crossover frequency, but not because of the reason you described.

 

[abdo123]

so you don't do do anything with sub gain

he does need to do something about it, and that is to match it to the gain of the speakers (and move based on preference from there, usually people like the gain of the subwoofer to be +4dB louder based on Harman research).

For someone who doesn't even have a measurement microphone, I'm kind of happy that he took the initiative to use his ears as microphones, with inaccuracies and all.

 

[Ultrasonic]

he does need to do something about it, and that is to match it to the gain of the speakers (and move based on preference from there, usually people like the gain of the subwoofer to be +4dB louder based on Harman research).

For someone who doesn't even have a measurement microphone, I'm kind of happy that he took the initiative to use his ears as microphones, with inaccuracies and all.

Please don't quote something completely out of context like this. You've either totally missed my point or wildly misrepresented it. Neither is helpful.

 

[gasolin75]

I think you're confusing two unrelated thing here. Yes human hearing is less sensitive at 50 Hz than 100 Hz, and so higher SPLs are needed at 50 Hz to sound as loud as at 100 Hz. However, this is already accounted for during music creation and recording so you don't do do anything with sub gain because of this ie. if 50 Hz and 100 Hz notes are intended to sound as loud as each other then the recorded signal level at 50 Hz is higher to achieve this.

When a combination of high and low-pass filters are used to minimise overlap of sound from main speakers and subwoofer then obptimal subwoofer gain is basicially unrelated to crossover frequency. In the situation where there is substantial overlap as you may have, then you may well find you want to adjust the sub gain when you vary the sub crossover frequency, but not because of the reason you described.

Also depens on what i listen to,how deep the bass is and how loud, somewhere i read that most chest pouding beats are not sub bas, just bas, so what most consider chest pounding that many likes at a techno,edm partys (armin van buuren,italobrothers,Gifi D' Agostino,David guetta) is often more 80-120hz than 80hz down to 50hz of course with alot of exceptions, i also like listening to som good jazz with deeper bass than most pop,rock songs

 

[gasolin75]

Please don't quote something completely out of context like this. You've either totally missed my point or wildly misrepresented it. Neither is helpful.

There migt be frequencys where bass need to be raised 4 db or lowered. Generally a bass that is more flat down to 40-50 hz is more likely to play the bass how THEY want it to sound, thats why i never use an eq with 2 speakers other than studio monitors, i like how music sounds different, i just think i need to get a minidsp or the DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core to optimize the bass, i really don't have to much to adjust the bass with if 120hz down 40hz can't be optimized with a bass control, on most amps often at 100hz, how much under and over 100hz they effect (Q) i don't know.

So fare i don't dislike the foam in the bass ports of my missions and setting the crossover on the sub to 100hz, still don't get close to 50% on the volume, i don't want it to sound unaturally or like the guys in there cars with big wheels, minimum 2x12" subs and 400-500 watt rms or more with the bass at 11, so fare i use setting b on the bass extension (-6db at 28hz) i don't wanna go crazy and use setting a (-6db at 23hz) it's after all only an 8" woofer

 

[Ultrasonic]

There migt be frequencys where bass need to be raised 4 db or lowered. Generally a bass that is more flat down to 40-50 hz is more likely to play the bass how THEY want it to sound, thats why i never use an eq with 2 speakers other than studio monitors, i like how music sounds different, i just think i need to get a minidsp or the DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core to optimize the bass, i really don't have to much to adjust the bass with if 120hz down 40hz can't be optimized with a bass control, on most amps often at 100hz, how much under and over 100hz they effect (Q) i don't know.

You're somewhat contradicting yourself here. Yes, different people absolutely prefer different variations in bass output with frequency, and my post above didn't suggest otherwise. However, the way to fully investigate and achieve what you're describing is with the use of something like a miniDSP, ideally coupled with a measurement microphone.

The above variation is also different to using the likes of a miniDSP to achieve a smooth (reduced peaks in particular) bass response, which most notably stops bass at particular frequencies being overly dominent, and 'boomy'.

 

[Ultrasonic]

What would a good price be for a 2012 DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core ?

My gut reaction is that I wouldn't buy one, since it doesn't offer the same functionality for you as a miniDSP 2x4 HD despite it's higher RRP. In particular it wouldn't allow you to apply a high-pass filter to your main speakers.

 

[gasolin75]

what fullrange units is there besides the minidsp and the one i found used DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core ?

The dayton dsp unit for 82 euros at audiophonics is only for the bass and only offers room correction with an iphone, which i don't own

 

[Ultrasonic]

what fullrange units is there besides the minidsp and the one i found used DSpeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core ?

The dayton dsp unit for 82 euros at audiophonics is only for the bass and only offers room correction with an iphone, which i don't own

Given the strong perference I know you have for cheap / high value-for-money products, you should look no further the the 2x4 HD. It is an absolute bargain for what it can do. There aren't loads of alternatives and those that exist are much more expensive. What you could get by paying more is a more automated solution for applying EQ to give a smooth response and adjust the 'house curve' (shape of the bass response) using for example Dirac Live. What I don't think you can get though is an automated way to adjust/optimise main speakers/subwoofer crossover (outside of I think multi-channel AV products).

 

[gasolin75]

My gut reaction is that I wouldn't buy one, since it doesn't offer the same functionality for you as a miniDSP 2x4 HD despite it's higher RRP. In particular it wouldn't allow you to apply a high-pass filter to your main speakers.

Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core features fully customizable highpass and lowpass filters. I think it's both for the front speakers + the sub

 

[Ultrasonic]

Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core features fully customizable highpass and lowpass filters. I think it's both for the front speakers + the sub

It only has two outputs, not four as far as I could see? So you'd need two units to apply both a high pass filter to your main speakers and a low-pass filter to a subwoofer. If you only applied it to your main speaker then you could apply a high-pass filter but not then apply EQ to the most important frequency range that would be covered by the subwoofer.

 

[gasolin75]

It only has two outputs, not four as far as I could see? So you'd need two units to apply both a high pass filter to your main speakers and a low-pass filter to a subwoofer. If you only applied it to your main speaker then you could apply a high-pass filter but not then apply EQ to the most important frequency range that would be covered by the subwoofer.

No it has 2 pair of in and outputs but you can only use 1 pair of input but 2 outputs rca for the sub and xlr for the amp

 

[Ultrasonic]

No it has 2 pair of in and outputs but you can only use 1 pair of input but 2 outputs rca for the sub and xlr for the amp

No, the point is independent output channels, not sockets. I suspect that the RCA and and XLR sockets will mirror each other in terms of carrying the same output signals. (I had looked at a photo of the back of the unit, and the anti-mode website details, before posting what I did above.)

See if you can see a reference anywhere to one of these units simultaneously applying a hgh-pass filter to main speakers and a low-pass filter to a subwoofer. I'm open to being corrected but I think I'm right here...

 

[gasolin75]

I do need something that will let me get most (sound quality) out of my mission and the sub or else im afraid i vil have to return the sub and buy different front speakers, i don't think it's possible to get someting cheap (amp) with room correction and time alignment unless i find a good surround receiver

 

[Ultrasonic]

I do need something that will let me get most (sound quality) out of my mission and the sub or else im afraid i vil have to return the sub and buy different front speakers, i don't think it's possible to get someting cheap (amp) with room correction and time alignment unless i find a good surround receiver

Do you still think adding the sub has improved the sound of your system, or not?