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Subwoofer upgrade.....Decisions, Decisions....Please Help!

Lewi1032

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I am looking to upgrade my subwoofers and I am wanting to stay around $2000-$2500 tops and I am looking at some svs subs but not 100% loyal to only svs. I am attaching photos of my setup and my attempt at a quick drawing of my room LOL….It is pretty large as it's an open floor plan with 15 ft vaulted ceilings. I currently have a set of pb1000’s the older ones with the 10” drivers and I am wanting to upgrade. I am running a Denon avr x4700h, A pair of Magnepan 3.6r as the front channel, two VTV monoblock Hypex NC1200 driving them, an Emotiva C2 center, Emotiva T-zero tower for surround Left/Right, 4 Emotiva A1 atmos Reflective/height speakers for front and rear. I already mentioned that I have a pair of PB-1000'S and they are for sure without a doubt the weakest link within my setup and I would say out of 10 I would rate them a 5 in my taste in my room/setup. I listen to music at least 50% of the time and watch "TV" 40% of the time and "Movies" 10% of the time. What sucks is we all know "tv" just isn't recorded/broadcasted worth a crap so the setups really don't shine until I am watching movies or of course listing to music. If you know Magenapans then you know that I obviously like great quality and sound and I would rather have accurate and amazing quality over boomy loose bass. With that being said I am for sure up to feeling it in my chest!! LOL I know my room is very large and for my budget, I can live with one sub and purchase another later on as I really don't want to spend more than that at this moment but I also don't want to buy one sub and go backward between now and then before I add another sub.My current subs are in a custom-built entertainment stand so If I wanted the same setup I would be limited to either doing dual newer version pb1000 pros, dual sb2000 pros, or dual sb3000’s so I would love to hear input on those 3 setups vs the dual pb1000 that I currently have. I have also thought about putting subs behind my magnepan speakers and that would open up possibly the pc series and also the larger pb speakers as size wouldn’t be much of an issue as long as the speaker isn’t much larger than 24”. From some recommendations and reading from some other forums, it looks like PSA and Rythmik are the better quality/sounding but I am looking forward to your recommendations and input. One last thing...... I don't care about name brand, looks, etc all I care about is the sound and quality. Thank you in advance!!
 

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NiagaraPete

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I've never heard them but the Monoprice Monolith subs seem to get good reviews.
 

Thunder22

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HSU research/ULS-15 MK2. For the price I do not think you could do better and if you get two they knock a few more bucks off.

Product At a Glance​

Amplifier Power (RMS)​
2000 W Short Term, 600 W Continuous​
Frequency Response​
20 - 200 Hz, +/-1 dB​
Woofer​
15 Inch​
Q Control Range​
0.3 - 0.7​
Crossover​
30 - 90 Hz, Bypassable​
Crossover Slope​
24 dB/Oct​
Phase​
0°/180°​
Inputs​
Balanced XLR (2), Line Level (2), Speaker Level (2)​
Power Outlet Requirement​
720 W, 120/240V​
Enclosure Dimensions​
18" H x 18" W x 18" D​
Dimensions with Grill, Feet & Amp​
19" H x 18" W x 191⁄2"D​
Weight​
65 lbs​
Warranty​
7-years on Woofer, 2-years on Electronics​
Designed and Engineered in the U.S.A.​
 

sweetchaos

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Welcome to ASR.
Have you seen my ‘subwoofer comparison’ spreadsheet yet?
If not, please take a look.
 
OP
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Lewi1032

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Welcome to ASR.
Have you seen my ‘subwoofer comparison’ spreadsheet yet?
If not, please take a look.
Good lord my head hurt looking at that sheet! I can't imagine the time you put into that and that is awesome man!! I am sure I speak for everyone when I say thanks indeed!!! With that being said looks like the monoprice, some of the rhytmik, and a few of the svs fall in the "extreme" that my room size would need, within my budget, and also the Hz SPL categories, or am I completely off from what I am looking at and understanding? LOL
 
OP
L

Lewi1032

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I know...I went a bit overboard with that...:facepalm:
But so worth it...:D

If I read your diagram right, yes, you'll need "Extreme" subs for this room.
Two at the minimum. :cool:
Four if you're crazy dedicated enough. ;)
Thanks to you I now know what the data says but do you have any personal input on monoprice, rhytmik, or svs? Looks like a the monolith 16" is a beast maybe get a single for now and then add a 2nd later? I could do 2 monolith 15"'s now? Heard the Rhytmik are very "musical"?
 

sweetchaos

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Remember, you get 3db more output with each added subwoofer above 30hz, and 6db more output below 30hz.
So a slightly lower "room-rating" subwoofer can still work for your room, provided you get two of them, of course.

SVS, Monoprice, Rythmik are all good choices.

Take a look at this (time-stamped already):

Which kills the argument that you need a sealed sub for 'musicality".
A well-designed ported sub (like the Monoprice 16" THX ported sub) will sound musical if the group delay is low enough.
 
OP
L

Lewi1032

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Remember, you get 3db more output with each added subwoofer above 30hz, and 6db more output below 30hz.
So a slightly lower "room-rating" subwoofer can still work for your room, provided you get two of them, of course.

SVS, Monoprice, Rythmik are all good choices.

Take a look at this (time-stamped already):

Which kills the argument that you need a sealed sub for 'musicality".
A well-designed ported sub (like the Monoprice 16" THX ported sub) will sound musical if the group delay is low enough.
You are a good dude man I really appreciate it!! I think I am going to order a monoprice 16" and a fv18" Keep what I like the best and get a 2nd down the road.
 

Sean Ku

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I have been looking into upgrading for almost a year myself. If money were no object, I would get the HSU ULS-15 MK2. I like these because of their flat frequency response from 20Hz to 200Hz. Unfortunately, that is not my financial situation and those are over $1000 a piece with shipping and tax. I ended up getting a Klisch R-112SW (12-inch, front slot porteed) to join my existing one. It was $319 plus tax through slickdeals/adorama. Amazon has the Klipsch WA-2 wireless kit marked down to $129 and I just ordered that.

You might consider this kind of approach. You could keep your existing subs that fit nice in your custom cabinet, and add an additional sub or two with the wireless kit which would allow you to place them anywhere in the room and maybe find a sweet spot. It is hard to find measurements of the R-112SW unfortunately, but if you google really hard, you can find measurements of the SPL-120 which is very similiar. Try searching "SPL-120 frequency response", then select "images" and look for the plot from the New York Times/Wirecutter.
 

sweetchaos

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Good choice.
There's so much marketing BS out there...I'm glad I can help people to spend their money more wisely. :D

Also, make sure to EQ down the peaks in the bass frequency response caused by room modes (aka standing waves), otherwise, your bass will sound "muddy" which is often attributed to "not as musical". Once you bring those peaks down. BAM! It's back to musical. ;)
 

stevenswall

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Remember, you get 3db more output with each added subwoofer above 30hz, and 6db more output below 30hz.

I think Erin's Audio Corner measured the difference and it was more like 6 dB all around. Doubling the surface area of the driver, and the volume of the box, and the amplifier power, plus room gain.

OP: Getting subwoofers well integrated seems to be what makes them sound "musical" and disappear rather than sounding like a separate system. Whatever you do, I'd highly suggest room correction as bass peaks are the primary contributor to bass sounding slow.

I'd also recommend doing stereo subwoofers that can handle midbass as the two Magnepan model's I've heard would have benefited from something else taking more of the bass load off. (Maybe something that is flat up to 200hz rather than crossing over at 80hz.)
 
OP
L

Lewi1032

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I have been looking into upgrading for almost a year myself. If money were no object, I would get the HSU ULS-15 MK2. I like these because of their flat frequency response from 20Hz to 200Hz. Unfortunately, that is not my financial situation and those are over $1000 a piece with shipping and tax. I ended up getting a Klisch R-112SW (12-inch, front slot porteed) to join my existing one. It was $319 plus tax through slickdeals/adorama. Amazon has the Klipsch WA-2 wireless kit marked down to $129 and I just ordered that.

You might consider this kind of approach. You could keep your existing subs that fit nice in your custom cabinet, and add an additional sub or two with the wireless kit which would allow you to place them anywhere in the room and maybe find a sweet spot. It is hard to find measurements of the R-112SW unfortunately, but if you google really hard, you can find measurements of the SPL-120 which is very similiar. Try searching "SPL-120 frequency response", then select "images" and look for the plot from the New York Times/Wirecutter.

I think Erin's Audio Corner measured the difference and it was more like 6 dB all around. Doubling the surface area of the driver, and the volume of the box, and the amplifier power, plus room gain.

OP: Getting subwoofers well integrated seems to be what makes them sound "musical" and disappear rather than sounding like a separate system. Whatever you do, I'd highly suggest room correction as bass peaks are the primary contributor to bass sounding slow.

I'd also recommend doing stereo subwoofers that can handle midbass as the two Magnepan model's I've heard would have benefited from something else taking more of the bass load off. (Maybe something that is flat up to 200hz rather than crossing over at 80hz.)
Anything come to mind on the recommendation of the stereo subwoofers?
 

Willem

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Floyd Toole says stereo subs is more trouble than it is worth. I would recommend keeping what you have, and just add one or two extra ones within your budget. Also consider using Multi Sub Optimizer, see here for the video tutorial:
 

stevenswall

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Anything come to mind on the recommendation of the stereo subwoofers?

Haven't worked with enough to make a recommendation, just based on these measurements I'd try to get something that can do midbass all the way up to where the magnepan has a peak. Yours are larger so likely go a bit deeper, but if I had the LRS listed below I'd try to cross it over around 300hz.

index.php
 

radix

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I have the Sigberg Inkognito 10, which does very well upto 180 Hz or so. They also have the 12, which is a bit more SPL. But if you need up to 300 Hz, I'm not sure what would be the right answer.

2021-Inkognito10-InRoom.jpeg

2021-Inkognito12-InRoom_066a9f02-9fbb-4b1a-973a-8f797adcb7cc.jpeg
 

Everett T

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You are a good dude man I really appreciate it!! I think I am going to order a monoprice 16" and a fv18" Keep what I like the best and get a 2nd down the road.
The monolith should edge out the rythmik overall, interested to hear your comments after they arrive, enjoy!
 

Willem

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Right now you have two good subwoofers, so I would keep them and use almost all of your budget to add one big subwoofer for really deep and powerful bass sound in your large room. See here for inspiration:
The best match is probably another ported one. To integrate all this you will need a calibrated measurement microphone to produce the measurements that Multi Sub Optimizer needs and a dsp unit like the miniDSP 2x4HD to actually control the response. So budget a few hundred dollars for that.
 

sigbergaudio

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I have the Sigberg Inkognito 10, which does very well upto 180 Hz or so. They also have the 12, which is a bit more SPL. But if you need up to 300 Hz, I'm not sure what would be the right answer.

Those graphs are a bit old (guess we need to update those). The Inkognitos currently shipping (including yours) are -6dB at around 300hz in preset 1. We could easily make a custom config that allowed them to go even higher if a customer requested it. Same goes for the 10D.
 
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