Subwoofer to take over whole of 120hz LFE on hard coded crossovers?

[jarablue]

Hi there. I have a question. I have my studio monitors which are klipsch the sevens. They have a sub output on the back which plugs into my svs pb 2000 pro sub. The sevens have a dsp in them that hard codes the crossover at 60hz. I cannot change this function as it is static set when I plug a sub into its sub out port.

I have my sub in the svs app set to LFE mode. What I wanted to know is, is there anyway I can get my sub to take over duties for the entire 120hz LFE range while using my speakers? I heard that is what a sub is supposed to do is play the entire range of the LFE 120hz. How would that work if my speakers would be playing bass also from 60 to 120hz?

I do not have a AV receiver I just basically have my speakers and the sub connected to each other. I am running this on a desktop pc.

Thanks for the help!!!

 

[Chrispy]

I'd have to translate your query with looking at manuals, sounds more like you have no idea what is going on, tho. LFE (the .1 channel) is usually limited to 120hz, but you seem to have strange ideas otherwise....

 

[jarablue]

What I am saying is if my crossover on the speakers is 60hertz, how could my sub play frequencies above 60hz? I think I am wording it wrong. I do have an idea of how it all works. Not sure what's strange about what I am asking. I could of worded it better.

That's it.

Edit: I read about LPF for LFE. I do not know what my speakers do automatically when connecting a sub. I know they send a high and low pass filter when a sub is connected per klipsch tech support. I wanted to know if my sub would play anything above the crossover, up to the 120hz in addition to my speakers also playing that range. Again these are just powered active speakers. I am not sure other than them having their own dsp and dac built in, what they are doing.

 

[Laika2]

If by hard codes the crossover you mean the crossover is fixed at 60 and can't be changed your sub is only feed 60 and below. LPF normally is left at 120 to prevent anything above that going to the mains. That does not mean you can send above 60 to the mains. The LPF is not a concern for what you are trying to do. You mentioned DSP, you can't change the crossover there? LFE can't be changed anywhere?

 

[KenMasters]

It would seem you're stuck with a 60Hz crossover unfortunately. Odd choice on Klipsch's part to limit you in this way.

 

[Keith_W]

I had a look a the manual for the Klipsch The Sevens speaker. Nowhere does it mention that the sub output is limited to 60Hz, so I don't know where you got that from. On the other hand, I find it quite believable that a small speaker like yours is unable to reproduce anything below 60Hz, which may mean that the speakers are high passed at 60Hz, but this does not necessarily mean that the subwoofer output is low passed at 60Hz.

Your subs on the other hand have built-in DSP and an adjustable low pass filter according to the SVS PB-2000 manual.

I suggest you try this experiment. Set your subwoofer low pass filter to as high as it will go. Download REW, and use the signal generator to play a 120Hz sine wave tone. Or you can find a 120Hz sine wave test tone from somewhere else, maybe Spotify or Youtube. Gently touch the cone of your subwoofer and see if it's moving. Report back.

(EDIT) found one on Youtube for you.

It's not the most exciting video

 

[kemmler3D]

To get the sub to play up to 120hz you need to send it a full range signal. That means using the output of your source, not the sub out from the speakers.

If you do that the 60-120hz range might be too loud. If you go the route, you'll need to look into using room correction and/or/via PEQ to correct it. That's usually a good idea anyway.

 

[Keith_W]

To get the sub to play up to 120hz you need to send it a full range signal. That means using the output of your source, not the sub out from the speakers.

The point of asking him to use the sub out from the speakers is because I do not believe that the Klipsch sub out is limited to 60Hz. It does not say that anywhere in the manual. I suspect that the sub out DOES send full range signal or perhaps a band limited signal, which is why I asked him to perform that experiment. I think he may be a bit confused about the whole 60Hz thing.

 

[KenMasters]

The point of asking him to use the sub out from the speakers is because I do not believe that the Klipsch sub out is limited to 60Hz. It does not say that anywhere in the manual. I suspect that the sub out DOES send full range signal or perhaps a band limited signal, which is why I asked him to perform that experiment. I think he may be a bit confused about the whole 60Hz thing.

Crossover frequency when connected to a Subwoofer - The Sevens and The Nines​

When a subwoofer is connected to The Sevens/The Nines' subwoofer output, the speakers will have a frequency response of 60Hz - 25kHz. The connected subwoofer will produce audio up to 60Hz.

https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/19237682135956-Crossover-frequency-when-connected-to-a-Subwoofer-The-Sevens-and-The-Nines

 

[kemmler3D]

The point of asking him to use the sub out from the speakers is because I do not believe that the Klipsch sub out is limited to 60Hz. It does not say that anywhere in the manual. I suspect that the sub out DOES send full range signal or perhaps a band limited signal, which is why I asked him to perform that experiment. I think he may be a bit confused about the whole 60Hz thing.

Ah, That makes sense and I think your suggestion is a good one... Or does @KenMasters reference play here?

At any rate @jarablue one reason that 60hz is a decent choice for a crossover frequency is that's around where you can start hearing which direction the bass is coming from. If you go higher and the sub isn't right next to the main speaker it can sound like the bass is dislocated from the rest of the music. Not necessarily a huge problem but one possible reason for the 60hz setting.

 

[Geertidow]

Maybe I misunderstand. But you can output from the source to the sub and from there to your monitors?
You can program a crossover in the SVS app

 

[DVDdoug]

I do not have a AV receiver I just basically have my speakers and the sub connected to each other. I am running this on a desktop pc.

Then you don't have a "point one" LFE channel.

The LFE is separate and not included in the stereo downmix. You need a 5.1 channel (or more) soundcard or an AVR, etc. with a surround decoder and a separate subwoofer output, otherwise the LFE channel is not used.

This is different from "bass management" which is a crossover that optionally re-routes the bass from the other channels to the sub, along with the LFE (if any).

 

[alex-z]

LFE means the .1 channel in a surround mix. In a surround setup the LFE channel has a dedicated 120Hz low-pass, which is separate from the low-pass used for bass management of the remaining channels.

You are using a stereo system so there is no LFE low-pass and you cannot change the crossover point due to the arbitrary Klipsch limitation. The only way to change this would be external DSP + surround processing, not connecting the sub directly to the Klipsch speakers.

 

[OldHvyMec]

The 60hz is set because that is the frequency best suited for that speaker. If you could add between 60-120 Hz, it would sound like a bloated boomy mess most likely. A sub is a sub; you're into the bass frequency, above 60-80Hz. The set frequency is close to what I would choose. All of my subs are set at 30-60 hz, never higher unless you like a boomy room or you have the frequency cut above that. I'd go a step further and remove mass from any passive radiators, if I still have boom on some of the music I play. EX: HipHop, Latin rock or jazz, equatorial coral, and quite a few country western albums I enjoy. It's also a nice feature if you use subs with passive radiators, like I do in many of my sub builds. It makes it a lot easier to customize any sub for any room, amp, or cable changes if you use passive or active designs.

I have some monitors cut at 280 Hz, but I use bass columns, not subs, to fill the gap. They are carefully placed to image a center bass phantom, too, if the music is mixed in stereo. Some of my old records and CDs are not mixed in mono, but sub/bass stereo. Above 80hz the sound is very directional, and where you point a sub above 80 Hz will definitely go that direction. The omni thing is for sub frequencies, not bass frequencies.

If you want clean, less distorted playback, always start with sub/bass frequencies, it makes all the difference in the world for all frequencies above that, too. The best way to describe what it does is clarity.

Regards.

 

[Keith_W]

When a subwoofer is connected to The Sevens/The Nines' subwoofer output, the speakers will have a frequency response of 60Hz - 25kHz. The connected subwoofer will produce audio up to 60Hz.

https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/19237682135956-Crossover-frequency-when-connected-to-a-Subwoofer-The-Sevens-and-The-Nines

Wow thanks for posting that. I could not believe that any company would do anything so silly and limiting. I guess I am wrong!

The only way to change this would be external DSP + surround processing, not connecting the sub directly to the Klipsch speakers.

I agree with this. But it may be worthwhile getting a microphone and seeing if what Klipsch has done produces a good result before going through the trouble of external DSP.

 

[jarablue]

My setup is limited apparently, and I am ok with that. Thanks for helping me. I appreciate it. Really thanks again.

 

[10PSPMemSticksForMiku2007]

Hi there. I have a question.

You can use your PC to do the dsp rather than relying on what is built into the speakers. You'll need a multichannel output on your motherboard or soundcard. If you don't have one, USB cards are available starting at $30. Set your windows speaker layout to quad, 5.1 or 7.1. Install EqualizerAPO, then the copy, high pass, low pass filters to set up your crossover. Each speaker or sub connects to a different channel of your DAC. You can also do any equalization or room correction you may want to. You could even hook up two subwoofers and have one for each stereo speaker.