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Subwoofer suggestions strictly for challenging pipe organ music.

SVS subs tend to have good bang for buck in terms of extension. $1500 per sub will also get you some KEF KC62s which have really good extension but not much output for the money. I have a pair in my living room despite this, they don't bother my wife very much and do add quite a bit of bass to the LS60s. Bonus is you can use them with a wireless connector.

If I was just going for bang-for-buck I'd start with SVS and Hsu though.

OP - I would inquire as to your insistence on NOT techno, JUST classical. If a sub can do one genre competently, it (mostly) follows it can do the other. (Techno tends not to have much below 40hz, anecdotally)... but I assume you mean to say your priority is extension over SPL.
Thanks for the suggestion of the KEF KC62. If you haven't mentioned it I wouldn't have learned about it's big brother the KC92. That sub looks amazing and 2 of those is what I think I will go with. It is $1000 more than I want to spend for 2 subs but wow does this sub look nice.
 
For others that haven't already made up their minds on this subject... :rolleyes:

Here is a spectral plot from a Virgil Fox CD, the final fugue from Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C major, BWV 564, showing the 32' fundamental at 16 Hz, highlighted in red:

Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C major, BWV 564 - Virgil Fox (Fugue only).JPG


This is pretty typical of full pipe organ spectra. Even in this recording, it can be seen that there is a pretty sharp attenuating filter below ~22 Hz of about 24-36 dB/octave. [What this does to the overall phase response of the recording isn't good, unless linear phase filtering was used--which wasn't really available until the latest millennia.] This CD was dated 1990.

I recommend only horn-loaded subs if you're looking for..."...sub(s) that can go extremely low, but...also really refined for that kind of music." You get 16-20 dB more gain out of a (properly) horn-loaded subwoofer over using the same drivers in direct radiating mode. That's ~100:1 difference in output acoustic power. The savings in electrical power required are in the same ratio--something that should give the reader pause.

Direct radiating woofers also experience much higher levels of both modulation and harmonic distortion at those frequencies because of the 5-10x higher travel limits that are required to produce the same audible levels of 16 Hz energy that the horn-loaded sub produces. That's a qualitative advantage for horn loading, and why I strongly recommend them over direct radiating--even if you are using direct radiating loudspeakers to cross over to.

Chris
 
Thanks for the suggestion of the KEF KC62. If you haven't mentioned it I wouldn't have learned about it's big brother the KC92. That sub looks amazing and 2 of those is what I think I will go with. It is $1000 more than I want to spend for 2 subs but wow does this sub look nice.
Nice! The KC92 is a good sub but maybe not the ultimate in bang-for-buck or size. But I think it's a very quality unit and definitely a better value for SPL/$ than the KC62.

I would say that What Hi-Fi is very subjective in their reviews, but what you really want to know (like any speaker) is the frequency response and max. SPL for any given sub. there are standardized tests that are run on subs to determine this. The KC92 IIRC comes out pretty competent in those so you don't need to worry that it's a loser or waste of money, but you can probably stretch your dollar a little further if you want to.

As others have said, getting some PEQ into the system (via MiniDSP or otherwise) will be essential to enjoying pipe organ music with good fidelity.

The reason is that room modes can swallow up or double the volume of certain notes. This is especially rough with pipe organ where the low notes don't always have many harmonics, so the psychoacoustic loudness is pretty close to the actual volume. Without EQ each note can vary in apparent volume in a very annoying way, even with 2 good subs in the room.
 
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Thanks for the suggestion of the KEF KC62. If you haven't mentioned it I wouldn't have learned about it's big brother the KC92. That sub looks amazing and 2 of those is what I think I will go with. It is $1000 more than I want to spend for 2 subs but wow does this sub look nice.
These subs can’t really do 11Hz you can find proper measurements if you search this forum but at 11Hz they aren’t putting out any meaningful sound pressure level.

They look like they can do meaningful level at 20Hz but not for very long before some kind of protection kicks in and reduces the level.

Getting meaningful level at 16Hz is expensive and I’m afraid there is no replacement for displacement.

You want to look at the ‘sweetchaos’ subwoofer comparison see

 
Thanks for all your advice. I think I am going with two KEF KC92. It's relatively small, goes down to 11hz, and credible reviewers said it did a fantastic job with pipe organ, and that the base was very tight and not lingering.
So, this is dual 9” (equivalent of a 12 inch) in a sealed box (not ported). The Kef subs are DSP limited, so as you turn volume up the bass extension is reduced. It looks like a single sub does about 75 dB at 16 hz (not overly loud). Subs like the Hsu will have much much more low bass output when you turn the sub-bass up to audible volumes.

What Hi-fi is not a credible review. This is a credible review:

Erin’s Youtube
 
These subs can’t really do 11Hz you can find proper measurements if you search this forum but at 11Hz they aren’t putting out any meaningful sound pressure level.

They look like they can do meaningful level at 20Hz but not for very long before some kind of protection kicks in and reduces the level.

Getting meaningful level at 16Hz is expensive and I’m afraid there is no replacement for displacement.

You want to look at the ‘sweetchaos’ subwoofer comparison see

I am looking at spending a lot more $ now. Perhaps $5000 a sub
 
My preferred budget is $1500 usd per sub. (Up to 2 subs total. So $3000)
I am looking at spending a lot more $ now. Perhaps $5000 a sub

I love the budget drift from $3000 to $10000 total. :pNot making fun, been there myself. I went overkill for my medium to small room and got Arendal's flagship 1723 2V sub, just because of the FOMO syndrome. I would probably have to start to listen regularly to church organ music to justify the expenditure, because for most of the music I normally listen to, I don't need this kind of subwoofer capacity.

Edit - the most important use of the sub in my case, is to balance out the room modes. Sub location, and measuring the room response with a measurement microphone, is arguably more important than getting the top performing sub, as poor placement can easily nullify many of the performance advantages.
 
I love the budget drift from $3000 to $10000 total. :pNot making fun, been there myself. I went overkill for my medium to small room and got Arendal's flagship 1723 2V sub, just because of the FOMO syndrome. I would probably have to start to listen regularly to church organ music to justify the expenditure, because for most of the music I normally listen to, I don't need this kind of subwoofer capacity.

Edit - the most important use of the sub in my case, is to balance out the room modes. Sub location, and measuring the room response with a measurement microphone, is arguably more important than getting the top performing sub, as poor placement can easily nullify many of the performance advantages.
I was not knowledgeable enough at the time to know that $1500 per sub was not enough tp acheive what I want. This is why I increased the budget. So right now I have no budget constraints (up to $10,000) and no size constraints. I just want tight and fast base that is really deep.
 
I am looking at spending a lot more $ now. Perhaps $5000 a sub
Chasing infrasonic (sub 20Hz) perfection is a very expensive proposition. It’s also fraught with the peril of dealing with bass frequencies themselves.

There is a reason you see HT guys with 8-12 subs scattered around their rooms. Yes, people are looking for correcting and minimizing room modes, but they are also looking for SPL where they want it.

Most Subs are dropping in efficiency with Frequency. This is largely a design decision as most manufacturers don’t want you blowing up their subs and complaining or returning them. ;) This means you get limiters in DSP Amps that cut output pretty hard between 18-20 Hz.

While I do not personally agree with the designs, many people like PSA (Power Sound Audio) subs. Tom is an old hand in the business and was one of the founders of SVS. His Subs are claimed to go very low, but there is no 3rd party measurements to confirm this. But his customers insist the buzz is true with almost cult like fervor.

Another source for very good Subs would be Harbottle. Cody is the engineer and owner. His older subwoofer drivers have measured by Josh at Data Bass (as Harbottle/Ridge and as Funk (he and Funk Audio have a close working relationship). Anyway, his drivers have amazing output capabilities with very clean distortion measurements. The people I’ve talked to are all bashed and they all say the same thing: the bass his designs create is so clean that it is unlike everything else they’ve owned.

After that, it is the usual players: SVS, Arendal, Hsu, Rythmik… also GSG audio… some of the Monolith Subs measure exceptionally well, but there have been longevity concerns and questionable customer service.

Regardless, if you want low output at 16hz, you need to look at long term output sweeps, not just frequency response. Compression at low frequency and high SPL is a killer. Also watch for good group delay measurements which should stay below 1.5 cycles.

I would recommend only ported subs with few exceptions. Sealed subs will want a lot of power to do what you want. Ported subs will be more efficient. They will also need to be kinda big: you can’t cheat physics.

Please don’t fall for the BS claims that ported subs are not musical. This myth is busted by any competently designed modern ported sub. :)

FWIW, I use two Outlaw ultra x-13 subs that do pretty well. They might not be perfect, but they are as clean as I could get and they do deliver.

Happy hunting!
 
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Subs don't have to be crazy expensive especially if you assemble them yourself, I have had good luck with GSG, which you can also have assembled for an extra charge but still a pair is easily within your budget. I would look at large 18" or 21" subs for your purposes. https://shop.gsgad.com/

For 99% of the music I play I find 2 large GSG 18" subs to work fine but I have some pipe organ recordings that go down to ~16 Hz and if I try to play these loud the lowest notes cause the drywall flop around and pound against the studs which makes a very loud noise which pretty much ruins the effect. I don't have the money or inclination to "rebuild" my room for a handful notes on a handful of recordings but if you are really serious about organ music I would recommend you budget some money for "room reinforcement" and some time to chase around and fix various "buzzes" and "rattles" that will appear when the low notes are played. Have fun in any case.
 
A home low-playing subwoofer is just a box with a speaker. I recently copied the recipe to my thread)).
I have some experience with woodworking but I could never get close to the precision of the CNC machined flat packs with the interlocking bracing, and round overs, and other construction details. It also saves a lot of mess from all the MDF sawdust. I picked up my GSG flat packs at their factory and got a tour and "MDF sawdust handling" is one of their biggest production challenges.

The other option I don't see mentioned much is "Infinite Baffle" subs. If you had the right room and owned your house it seems like it would be the "ultimate" solution and would not be particularly expensive and would be very unobtrusive. http://ibsubwoofers.x10host.com/ If I was going all in for organ music I would give IB serious consideration and may try it anyway :)
 
I could never get close to the precision
One can order boxes in a style suitable for their interior anywhere. I made mine myself from garbage, but you don’t have to imitate me in this))
Infinite Baffle
I provided links above). Including a hint of my signature.

I will repeat my opinion: the microphone is step No. 0
 
might as well 2nd hand bose wave cannon's cut them different lengths lol and stack them vertically as if its a pipe organ , use a behringer DCX well could be difficultly , maybe mini-me-dsp 2x4 and divide the subs with steep filters off set a little so each wave cannon gets certain frequencies

 
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