Subwoofer Situation

[raistlin65]

What if I do that and I still don't get the punch I wanted?

I don't know. I'm just encouraging you to figure out whether or not your room space is too much for the subs you have. If you don't have enough sub, you have the wrong tool for the job.

Audioholics reviewed the SB3000 and rated it as suitable for a medium-sized room, which is 1,500 to 3,000 cubic feet

SVS 3000 Series Powered Subwoofers Review

We reviewed the SVS 3000 series subwoofers which, in many ways, may be their best subwoofer series to date. Read our in-depth review to find out why we like the SVS 3000 series subwoofers so much.

www.audioholics.com

Your room is 3,700 cubic feet without the additional space added in. My total room size is 5,000 cubic feet, and I wouldn't buy the SB3000's to run in my space.

 

[luft262]

Before you make any big changes, you really need to get your integration of your subs dialed in.

Get a house curve down the best you can.
Get subs and mains crossed over properly.
Get levels of subs and mains appropriate.

Anything else before that is just going to result in you still not being satisfied. If after you do the above, you still don't like it, then make bigger changes.

What is your recommend method for establishing a house curve? I understand the other concepts and how to test/obtain them, but the whole house curve thing is a little mysterious to me.

 

[luft262]

I don't know. I'm just encouraging you to figure out whether or not your room space is too much for the subs you have. If you don't have enough sub, you have the wrong tool for the job.

Audioholics reviewed the SB3000 and rated it as suitable for a medium-sized room, which is 1,500 to 3,000 cubic feet

SVS 3000 Series Powered Subwoofers Review

We reviewed the SVS 3000 series subwoofers which, in many ways, may be their best subwoofer series to date. Read our in-depth review to find out why we like the SVS 3000 series subwoofers so much.

www.audioholics.com

Your room is 3,700 cubic feet without the additional space added in. My total room size is 5,000 cubic feet, and I wouldn't buy the SB3000's to run in my space.

I saw that, but that's for 1 sub. I have 2, which should be 50% stronger, or good up to 4,500 feet cubed. (I know it's the mfg but SVS support thought they'd be plenty powerful for my room) If I run them at max it sounds like too much for my preferences and they would be playing 30 dB plus above my mains, which run off an Onkyo AVR with a claimed 200 watt output for 2 channels running, but probably fall well short of that in reality. I just feel like 90% of the time they blend great, but they lack some punch in certain situations, such as certain music or movies.

 

[raistlin65]

I saw that, but that's for 1 sub. I have 2, which should be 50% stronger, or good up to 4,500 feet cubed.

I don't know. I know that an extra sub will generally add 3 to 5db of extra SPL. But not sure how that calculates to extra room size.

 

[luft262]

Here are my latest measurements. I start with 80Hz Crossover, 16.5 ft Sub Distance (as determined by Onkyo auto calibrate), and No PEQ at the sub. Then I do a graph after each adjustment ending with 100Hz Crossover, 13.5 feet Sub Distance, and using all 3 PEQ filters per sub via the SVS app. Here are the results. Next I'm going to play with Onkyo's generic EQ to try and fix the massive dip at 134Hz and turn down the sub level to get a flatter response.

 

[luft262]

Here is 100Hz Crossover, 13.5 feet sub distance, and PEQ On as a waterfall.

 

[luft262]

Here is is 10Hz to 20,000Hz

And Waterfall

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Can you take a measurement of just the left speaker playing (no subs). Then just the right speaker playing (no subs)

 

[luft262]

Here are all measurements. I ended up with All + speakers moved back. Even though that a bit worse than with them forward I'm going with it because I don't have a center channel and if the speakers are too far forward there is literally only 1 sweet spot...

 

[luft262]

Right and Left Speakers

 

[luft262]

I turned off the -13dB on each sub, set them to 75dB output using white noise 10 to 200Hz and this is what I got from a sweep measurement. I too scared to take my receiver to max...Everything starts to rattle uncontrollably...lol!

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Right and Left Speakers

View attachment 179577

This is without subs?

 

[luft262]

This is without subs?

Yes

 

[luft262]

This is without subs?

Actually, looking at it that's not possible. I selected 1.1 and 1.2 in REW in AISO, but i think my AVR may have been set to stereo instead of direct so tomorrow I'll redo that measurement with the subs physically turned off.

 

[kiwifi]

I turned off the -13dB on each sub, set them to 75dB output using white noise 10 to 200Hz and this is what I got from a sweep measurement. I too scared to take my receiver to max...Everything starts to rattle uncontrollably...lol!

View attachment 179578

That sub response looks pretty good but the subs are still too hot relative to the mains.

You can improve the curve at your listening position(s) and across the crossover region using MSO and a DSP for the subs. Something like this...

QSC DSP-30

 

[Chromatischism]

Yes, kick drums are pretty wide band actually, all the way up in the khz range. But it typically starts at 40-50hz which is still well within the subwoofers range. I guess proper punch means not either or, both the subwoofer AND the rest of the range needs to be in balance and have plenty of capacity.

It depends on the tuning (some bands may prefer a different sound) but kick drums of the music I listen to has a fundamental in the 40-50 Hz range and is clearly lacking impact when my subs have a more shallow sloped response, and a more impactful thud when I run a steeper slope (lower sub frequencies emphasized).

 

[Chromatischism]

Actually, looking at it that's not possible. I selected 1.1 and 1.2 in REW in AISO, but i think my AVR may have been set to stereo instead of direct so tomorrow I'll redo that measurement with the subs physically turned off.

Set your speakers to Large if you want full-range to the speakers.

Or, if you want to see the crossover, run it as-is but turn off the subs. This will roll off (filter) the speakers with the crossover in place.

Then, do the reverse but with the subs on and speakers unplugged. Overlay the two measurements.

 

[sigbergaudio]

@luft262 Your subwoofers are still at least 5dB too hot.

I wouldn't bother with the 130hz dip, it's too narrow.

 

[sigbergaudio]

@luft262 Your subwoofers are still at least 5dB too hot.

I wouldn't bother with the 130hz dip, it's too narrow.

Your level is too high from 20-100hz, too low from 100-200hz and too high again from 200-500hz.

Turn down the subs at least 5db (7-8dB would probably be even more balanced). Then it would be interesting to see 2-3 measurements around the head area with maybe 5-10 inches apart, and one measurement at around stomach height at the listening position (the 100-200hz area may be different here), and then the average of those.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Also can you take moving mic averages. I like to get about 100 averages or until the RTA measurement stops adjusting (it will settle on a response usually around about 100 averages depending on how big of an area you are moving the microphone over.

I prefer using free space measurements because most house curves are designed without a body since they can't take account for every body size/shape/etc. I also prefer moving any furniture out of the way or measuring about 1ft above the furniture. This comes from Toole's research when they were measuring some movie theatres and found increased treble results after measuring right near the seat back, but this was not heard. Measuring above the seatback resulted in a meassurement that was more in line with what they heard. This was due to the reflections off of the seats, which shouldn't happen with a body in them.

Go to the generator and select these options (change the output channels appropriately though)

Then open the RTA screen and make sure these options are set:

Then follow how Erin did the moving mic in this video: