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Subwoofer Situation

luft262

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I have a 3,700 ft cubed, multipurpose living room. My audio system includes: An Onkyo AVR, Aria 926 L/R speakers, (currently no center channel - I always sit in the middle anyway), generic surrounds in the ceiling, and I just got two SVS SB 3000 subs. Previously I was using Polk Audio PSW 10 subs.

I just got the SB 3000's and honestly I've not been impressed. I don't want to sound crazy, because they are much more powerful than my previous Polks (850 watts RMS vs 100 watts and 13 inch drivers instead of 10), but they just don't have as much punch and slam as I thought they would. I appreciate their small size and controlling everything from the app is nice. I do use the the parametric eq they come with. My Onkyo receiver doesn't allow me to go in and do any parametric EQ (only the automatic eq'ing it does in the background with the setup mic). I have REW and a UMIK 1 so I can see that the built in eq on the subs helps me to flatten out the response, but honestly I can't physically hear much of a difference between when they are eq'ed vs un-eq'ed. The graph looks significantly flatter, but it's hard to say I hear a difference. For music I'm running them at -13 db and that blends in wonderfully, so I don't think bigger subs will make much of a difference for music, but for movies they lack some punch and slam in my opinion. I have to say that for $100 each the little Polks were punching way, way above their weight class. The SB 3000's area clearly better, but it's not the same wow factor I felt when going from the Pioneer fs52 towers to the Focal Area 926's, which just blew me out of the water. I guess I expected subs costing 10 times more than my bargain subs to be at least 4 times better, when I might realistically call them twice as good at best.

Because of WAF, and the multipurpose aspect of the room I can't go much bigger so ported subs are probably a no go. I could get HSU ULS 15's and it appears they would be about 6db plus more powerful, but I would lose the eq and ability to control them from the app. I also am not sure if they would be as "tight" and good for music as the SB 3000's. On the other hand, I will eventually get a Denon AVR and then I think I'll have parametric eq for my subs (right?) and the utility of the SVS subs might be less.

Do to room modes etc. I would also like to stick with duals and I can only afford subs around 1K each, roughly.

Any recommendations? Thoughts? Stick with the SB 3000's or send them back and try out the HSU ULS 15's?

Thanks for your help!
 

Jdunk54nl

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Since you have rew, have you measured when the subs and the mains are playing together? I am wondering if you have a phase issue. This would appear as a big dip in the response when playing together compared to individually.


Also if you are currently running your svs subs at -13db, getting another 6db out of your subs is easy, turn them up to -7db. Going to the HSU's then won't have any gain compared to what you would be doing going from -13db to HSU's.

I use a polk psw110 in my classroom, and there is no way that will be better than a svs sb3000. NO WAY! That is like saying an alexa speaker (or equivalent) will be as good as a revel salon 2. Sure, the alexa might be ok and do what you need it (I use our couple of alexa's quite a bit), but no match for the salon 2's.
 
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luft262

luft262

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Yeah. I have REW. I'll run it and post the results when I get home. The Polks aren't near as good as the SB 3000s, I'm just not blown away as much as I thought I would be... Thanks for the input.
 

kiwifi

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You have three PEQ filters available in the subs themselves. See what Multi Sub Optimizer can do with that.
 
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luft262

luft262

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I'll show you the measurements. I'm using all three PEQ filters in the subs themselves to make the curve flatter. My methodology was to run a 10 to 250 test tone through each sub individually and smooth out the results. Do you know if Denon allows for manual PEQ filters or just the "behind the scenes" filters from the auto calibrate? If I later upgrade my AVR I may no longer have a need for the PEQ's in the subs themselves if the AVR allows me to add filters. My current Onkyo AVR does not allow for manual PEQ filters to my knowledge.
 

Jdunk54nl

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Take a moving mic measurement using full range pink periodic noise playing through the following. Get about 100 averages where you "wave" the microphone around the listening position.

1) left sub
2) right sub
3) left sub + right sub
4) left speaker
5) right speaker
6) both speakers and both subs

Post those results.
 
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luft262

luft262

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Here is my 20Hz to 20,000Hz measurement. Red is with PEQ and Green is without PEQ. I could lower my subs output to get a flatter response with the speakers, but this is the level that sounds best to my ears. When I Isolate each subwoofer the PEQ looks like it's making a big difference, but when everything is played together it looks less pronounced.

1642117057274.png


And here is 20Hz to 200Hz for a better look at just the subs' frequencies.

1642117139364.png


Any thoughts?
 

Jdunk54nl

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Is this both subs together, individual? How did you take the measurement? Sweep or moving mic?
 
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luft262

luft262

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Left Sub with and without PEQ

1642117853543.png
 
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luft262

luft262

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Right Sub with and without PEQ

1642118112079.png
 
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luft262

luft262

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PXL_20220113_235145219.jpg


My room. Lots of glass...tile floors...opens to kitchen
 

LTig

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You need to run sub plus both speakers so one can see whether the crossover region has a null or a peak.
 

FrantzM

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Hi

I could be asking the most stupid questions:

Where do you sit?
Where did you measure?

The FR seems good..
A pair of SB3000 should shake the entire house, without breaking a sweat ...
 

tvrgeek

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Fortunately, we are not overly sensitive to small differences in deep base eq, unless it is grossly overdone. Many prefer it so. As far as "punchy" that is not the subs. That is mid bass. Perhaps you are blaming the wrong speakers?
 
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luft262

luft262

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Hi

I could be asking the most stupid questions:

Where do you sit?
Where did you measure?

The FR seems good..
A pair of SB3000 should shake the entire house, without breaking a sweat ...
I sit right in the middle of the couch. That's also where I measured.
 
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luft262

luft262

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You need to run sub plus both speakers so one can see whether the crossover region has a null or a peak.
I did. That's the first graph above.
 
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luft262

luft262

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Oops - you complain about meagre bass when the sub plays around 20 dB louder than the sats??? :eek:
I never thought of myself as a bass head...But this is my first time with "real" subs and also my first time with a mic to measure stuff... From the results it appears that maybe my bass desires are quite high. I'm running the subs -13, but if I raise it to say -5 they get really bloated and muddy. I guess what I want is for them to blend well, but then really "punch" when there is a sound effect or something like that. I guess getting more powerful subs would be pointless as these are already playing about 20 dB above my speakers and there not being pushed.
 
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luft262

luft262

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Does anyone have the prefered curve for home theater? What audio curve should I be shooting for? Thanks.
 

Chromatischism

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Does anyone have the prefered curve for home theater? What audio curve should I be shooting for? Thanks.
There really isn't anything about theater that demands a different curve. People may say to run the subs a little hotter, but not a different curve.

Usually the subs would be ~5-10 dB above the speakers (I tend more toward 10).
 
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