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Subwoofer or amplifier upgrade or both?

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BossBunos

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Do you mean bi amping or using monoblocks? From what I understand bi amping doesn't really help in the power department because most power demand is in the low frequencies so slitting lo/hi frequencies doesn't really work. You still put 90% of the power demand on one amplifier.
 
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BossBunos

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Sometimes I like to pull my speakers more into the room for more perception of soundstage depth and a better equal distance between the speakers and myself. Downside is that the bass response is having pretty big dips (40-60 and 80hz). That's why I'm currently leaning toward a sub first before upgrading amps.
 

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HarmonicTHD

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Do you mean bi amping or using monoblocks? From what I understand bi amping doesn't really help in the power department because most power demand is in the low frequencies so slitting lo/hi frequencies doesn't really work. You still put 90% of the power demand on one amplifier.
I think this says it all about biamping.



If you are concerned about power simply get more and yes a decent sub will provide plenty (>1kW) down low.
 

bigjacko

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If you want, run the salons full range but reduce subbass, then add in subwoofers. In this way you will have multiple sources of subbass, good for room acoustic.
 

dlaloum

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Do you mean bi amping or using monoblocks? From what I understand bi amping doesn't really help in the power department because most power demand is in the low frequencies so slitting lo/hi frequencies doesn't really work. You still put 90% of the power demand on one amplifier.
BI-amping - putting a crossover before the amps, so one amp is dedicated to nothing but the lower frequencies, and the other amp is dedicated to nothing but the higher frequencies - the respective loads are removed from the respective amps.

If the LF amp runs out of steam powering the woofer - it does not degrade the HF and Midrange response - as it is a seperate amp.

One of the issues with a constrained single amp, is that once it runs out of current for one frequency, the impact is applied to all frequencies - so not having enough grunt for the woofer, can result in a muddled midrange - as happened with my AVR(s) - with the 140W AVR's the difference was barely noticeable - with the 100W AVR it was really obvious.

Biamping fixed the problem - but so did powering the speaker via a 440W amp (capable of 1200W at 2 ohm!)

I did try running my 440W amps as monoblocks - but it made no difference - once you have enough, you have enough, any extra is wasted.

440W was (is) definitely better than my 140W amps (mind you the smaller amps are current constrained and their output into 2 ohm drops down to around 90 W - this is very common in many amps - so something to watch for if you have difficult/low impedance speakers)

What power/current would be "enough" without leaving excess left over? - I don't know, at a guess, based on the experiences I have had with different amps and with my speakers, a 150W @ 8 ohm amp capable of circa 500W @ 2ohm would probably be ample.
 
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BossBunos

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Ordered the arendal 1723 1S! To bad the satin white option is not in stock and I have to wait 6 weeks. That got me 5% off tough :)
Thank you all for sharing your experiences
 

HarmonicTHD

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BI-amping - putting a crossover before the amps, so one amp is dedicated to nothing but the lower frequencies, and the other amp is dedicated to nothing but the higher frequencies - the respective loads are removed from the respective amps.

If the LF amp runs out of steam powering the woofer - it does not degrade the HF and Midrange response - as it is a seperate amp.

One of the issues with a constrained single amp, is that once it runs out of current for one frequency, the impact is applied to all frequencies - so not having enough grunt for the woofer, can result in a muddled midrange - as happened with my AVR(s) - with the 140W AVR's the difference was barely noticeable - with the 100W AVR it was really obvious.

Biamping fixed the problem - but so did powering the speaker via a 440W amp (capable of 1200W at 2 ohm!)

I did try running my 440W amps as monoblocks - but it made no difference - once you have enough, you have enough, any extra is wasted.

440W was (is) definitely better than my 140W amps (mind you the smaller amps are current constrained and their output into 2 ohm drops down to around 90 W - this is very common in many amps - so something to watch for if you have difficult/low impedance speakers)

What power/current would be "enough" without leaving excess left over? - I don't know, at a guess, based on the experiences I have had with different amps and with my speakers, a 150W @ 8 ohm amp capable of circa 500W @ 2ohm would probably be ample.
There is nothing mysterious about calculating your average and peak power requirements.

Use this


For example.
Speaker sensitivity 87dB/2.83V/1m. 9ft listening distance.
Average SPL Level 85dB (pretty loud already for home listening - not party loud but loud).
-> Average Power: 2.5 Watts. Yes that’s all.

Now assuming you listen to music (eg classical music) with dynamics of 20dB.
-> Peak SPL 105dB (provided your speakers can even handle this without major distortion)
-> Peak Power 250W at 8 ohm and 500W at 4ohm.

However most modern music has much lower dynamics ca 13dB, heavy metal ca only 6dB. So you need considerable less peak power, ca 50W and 10W respectively.

And ca 105dB is pretty much the limit of many speakers and they already start distorting considerably as the speaker simply isn’t playing nicely at those level. Not even considering your hearing.
So again much less power really needed. (Of course there are always exceptions, especially if you have speakers with less sensitivity or which go down to even 2ohms).
 
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dlaloum

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There is nothing mysterious about calculating your average and peak power requirements.

Use this


For example.
Speaker sensitivity 87dB/2.83V/1m. 9ft listening distance.
Average SPL Level 85dB (pretty loud already for home listening - not party loud but loud).
-> Average Power: 2.5 Watts. Yes that’s all.

Now assuming you listen to music (eg classical music) with dynamics of 20dB.
-> Peak SPL 105dB (provided your speakers can even handle this without major distortion)
-> Peak Power 250W at 8 ohm and 500W at 4ohm.

However most modern music has much lower dynamics ca 13dB, heavy metal ca only 6dB. So you need considerable less peak power, ca 50W and 10W respectively.

And ca 105dB is pretty much the limit of many speakers and they already start distorting considerably as the speaker simply isn’t playing nicely at those level. Not even considering your hearing.
So again much less power really needed. (Of course there are always exceptions, especially if you have speakers with less sensitivity or which go down to even 2ohms).
Mine go down to 1.6 ohm.... Maggies go down to 1 ohm....

People focus on the 8 ohm power rating.... and tend to forget that their nominal 8 ohm speakers may well have troughs in the impedance curve that drop down to 3 ohm (quite common, particularly at the woofer crossover) - and that is where the heavy duty lifting will be needed. - And ultimately that requirement is best represented by a current capability spec....
 

HarmonicTHD

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Mine go down to 1.6 ohm.... Maggies go down to 1 ohm....

People focus on the 8 ohm power rating.... and tend to forget that their nominal 8 ohm speakers may well have troughs in the impedance curve that drop down to 3 ohm (quite common, particularly at the woofer crossover) - and that is where the heavy duty lifting will be needed. - And ultimately that requirement is best represented by a current capability spec....
Sure. As stated above. Just do the math with the worst case impedance of your speaker.
 
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