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Subwoofer Comparison

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sweetchaos

sweetchaos

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Well, it looks like I discovered a Google Sheets bug/glitch. Good thing I checked! :eek:

When I'm logged in as my admin account, all formulas work 100%.
BUT, when I logged into a view-only account (just like you guys do)...
The formula for Bassaholic works at start, but as soon as you create a "New Filter" and sort in any direction, other than the original...the Bassaholic rank fails.

To fix this, I un-hidden the Small, Small/Medium, Large, Extreme columns, and shrunk them.
At least you guys can sort without problems now.

So, the problem is...the code works, but as soon as you hide a few columns...the code breaks when you sort it differently.
Obviously, this shouldn't happen. I'll see if I can submit the feedback to Google to get this fixed.
 
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sweetchaos

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Monoprice 10" THX appears twice. Does this mean it's on the borderline of medium and large?
Here's the data for it for this sub:
1613946701878.png

There are 8 data points for it.

I think you misunderstood about what I'm showing you...

This subwoofer is a ported, front.
You can see this in the picture below:
1613948788495.png

In the box, monoprice includes FOAM PLUGs.
1613948906453.png
Which means you can either leave the subwoofer ported (leave the plug unplugged) or make it a sealed subwoofer (where you use the FOAM PLUG to plug the hole, and therefore making the subwoofer "sealed").

When Audioholics, Erin and Monoprice measured the CEA-2010-A data, they tested both configurations. I'm showing you both configurations.

Looking at the data:
Anytime it was tested as 'sealed' it classifies as 'medium'-sized-room capable subwoofer.
Anytime it was tested as 'ported' it classifies as 'large'-sized-room capable subwoofer.

I hope that clarifies it. :)
 
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sweetchaos

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Added 12 more Audioholics' subwoofers to the database...

This is how I found them...

If you check the latest Audioholics spreadsheet
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoof...ioholics Bassaholic compilation-08-10-20.xlsx
You'll see that there are entries in the 'BASSAHOLIC_ROOM_SIZE' TAB, but these models don't exist in the 'CEA2010_OUPUT_RESULTS' TAB.

So I had to track these models simply by browsing audioholics.com website
I've added them to my spreadsheet's "others" tab, since they're not from the main source (excel link above).
1613966325420.png

Next, I've added them to my spreadsheet:
comparison2.png

Notes:
1. Of the 12 I found, 11 were discontinued already, and 1 is still in production.
2. Of the 12 I found, 7 had CEA-2010-A data. I couldn't find any CEA-2010-A data for the remaining 5 anywhere on audioholics.com.
3. Of the 7 that had CEA-2010-A data, my Bassaholic calculator worked with 100% accuracy.
 
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sweetchaos

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Keep in mind that CEA2010 doesn’t show flatness, it just shows compression. A sub could be super linear at 90dB, but at 110dB for >30Hz, the <30Hz could be 100dB.

I think the “simplest“ thing to do is just allow people to filter, like I have for speakers. The only downside is that people need to have a Google account. You make a separate spreadsheet that imports the data from the main one (=ImportRange(), it auto updates too) and use =filter() & =RegexMatch() code to filter based off user input.

Since max SPL for a sub is an unknown value for people, incorporating Gene’s bassaholic rating is good. One can simply calculate the bassaholic rating for each and let people choose from a dropdown. More extreme would be to have people enter the cubic volume of their space (you can also allow for imperial & metric, just takes some slight working with the code, same with subwoofer dimensions), this is what I do for speaker dimensions in my spreadsheet (though you enter the max dimensions you want, not the minimum).

Thanks @MZKM , I've briefly looked at your spreadsheet previously, to understand it's functionality.

I've dealt with =importrange before, so I understand that, but quickly my head was spinning once I looked at your final filter: o_O
=filter({'Copy of LIST'!A2:B999,'Copy of LIST'!Q2:Q999,'Copy of LIST'!C2:G999,LIST!I2:K999,'Copy of LIST'!O2:O999,'Copy of LIST'!L2:N999},'Copy of LIST'!Q2:Q999>=C2,'Copy of LIST'!C2:C999>=D2,'Copy of LIST'!D2:D999>=E2,'Copy of LIST'!E2:E999<=F1,'Copy of LIST'!E2:E999>=F2-2,REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!G2:G999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!C2:C5)),'Copy of LIST'!I2:I999>=I2-0.5,'Copy of LIST'!J2:J999<=J1,'Copy of LIST'!J2:J999>=J2,REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!K2:K999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!G2:G4)),'Copy of LIST'!L2:L999<=M1,'Copy of LIST'!M2:M999<=N1,'Copy of LIST'!N2:N999<=O1,REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!O2:O999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!K2:K8)))

I understand the power of what you've done....instant filters are of course, faster to use, than conditional dropdowns.
And you're right that it does require a google account, whereas my way doesn't.
Just the sheer complexity of your final filter is a head scratcher.

Plus, my method allows for conditional menus anyway, so I don't think I'm loosing much functionally (other than data entry for "room size") by doing what I did, other than the user interface is different from yours.

For now, I'll keep it as is. But thanks for an ideas on how to further improve it.
 

pozz

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sweetchaos

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One thing that can perhaps be added is the manufacturers stated frequency response (and stated deviance i.e -3dB or whatever). Will obviously be quite a lot of work for such an extensive list.
I've thought about it, but since there's no consistency about how reviewers & manufacturers present this information, there's just no EASY way for me to present this data....

Here's my thoughts:
1. I know Erin started showing them early in his reviews, but later abandoned the idea, in favor of raw REW frequency data that he gives you, to plot yourself. I could plot Erin's graphs and show them. But again, it won't match anyone else's, which means you can't even compare two plots together.
2. I could link to each review's frequency graphs. Assuming they're even posted. Again, no consistency between reviewers, which means you can't even compare two plots together.
3. I could digitize each frequency response graph...using WebPlotDigitizer to do the work. Then present all the data in some consistent manner, probably using REW. This seems the most logical and consistent way, but will required A LOT of work.
I mean, I could limit my scope to just CEA-2010-A sources, which brings the total data entries I have to look at to...281.
Repeating WebPlotDigitizer process 281 times sounds like fun times! o_O

I'll put this idea on the shelf for now.
 
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sweetchaos

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I think warranty information is highly valuable when deciding on which subwoofer to purchase. The reason being the warranty duration varies significantly between vendors. Some premier speaker vendors (KEF) have "sub" par subwoofer warranties for example (2 years on electronics). The second reason a long warranty is so valuable is that you have electronic components in subwoofers so they are more likely to break down compared to passive speakers.
Certainly doable...and I believe worth the effort. Next on my list.
 

MZKM

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Thanks @MZKM , I've briefly looked at your spreadsheet previously, to understand it's functionality.

I've dealt with =importrange before, so I understand that, but quickly my head was spinning once I looked at your final filter: o_O
=filter({'Copy of LIST'!A2:B999,'Copy of LIST'!Q2:Q999,'Copy of LIST'!C2:G999,LIST!I2:K999,'Copy of LIST'!O2:O999,'Copy of LIST'!L2:N999},'Copy of LIST'!Q2:Q999>=C2,'Copy of LIST'!C2:C999>=D2,'Copy of LIST'!D2:D999>=E2,'Copy of LIST'!E2:E999<=F1,'Copy of LIST'!E2:E999>=F2-2,REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!G2:G999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!C2:C5)),'Copy of LIST'!I2:I999>=I2-0.5,'Copy of LIST'!J2:J999<=J1,'Copy of LIST'!J2:J999>=J2,REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!K2:K999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!G2:G4)),'Copy of LIST'!L2:L999<=M1,'Copy of LIST'!M2:M999<=N1,'Copy of LIST'!N2:N999<=O1,REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!O2:O999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!K2:K8)))

I understand the power of what you've done....instant filters are of course, faster to use, than conditional dropdowns.
And you're right that it does require a google account, whereas my way doesn't.
Just the sheer complexity of your final filter is a head scratcher.

Plus, my method allows for conditional menus anyway, so I don't think I'm loosing much functionally (other than data entry for "room size") by doing what I did, other than the user interface is different from yours.

For now, I'll keep it as is. But thanks for an ideas on how to further improve it.
Yeah, I forgot you could just filter by rating.

As for my code, it’s actually pretty simple:
=filter({'Copy of LIST'!A2:B999,'Copy of LIST'!Q2:Q999,'Copy of LIST'!C2:G999,LIST!I2:K999,'Copy of LIST'!O2:O999,'Copy of LIST'!L2:N999},

The original sheet isn’t in the order I want, so this is just me manually rearranging it, could just be A1:Z999 otherwise

'Copy of LIST'!Q2:Q999>=C2,'Copy of LIST'!C2:C999>=D2,'Copy of LIST'!D2:D999>=E2,'Copy of LIST'!E2:E999<=F1,'Copy of LIST'!E2:E999>=F2-2…'Copy of LIST'!I2:I999>=I2-0.5,'Copy of LIST'!J2:J999<=J1,'Copy of LIST'!J2:J999>=J2…'Copy of LIST'!L2:L999<=M1,'Copy of LIST'!M2:M999<=N1,'Copy of LIST'!N2:N999<=O1

This is saying to filter the columns based on the value of a specific cell, the first one is saying only keep data that is the same value or higher than cell C2 (Amir’s panther score). So if I put a 4 in cell C2, only golfing/soccer panther scoring speakers remain.


REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!G2:G999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!C2:C5)), …REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!K2:K999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!G2:G4)),REGEXMATCH('Copy of LIST'!O2:O999,TEXTJOIN("|", TRUE, 'Advanced Filters'!K2:K8)))

This is mainly about filtering speaker type, I have checkmark boxes on the other tab and it’s filtering based on whether the speaker type is checked (True) or unchecked (False).


All the above can be done via filters (Filter -> Condition, then choose less than, greater than, in between, etc.), so there is no need for you do this, and indeed there is a large benefit in not needing people to sign in to Google. I just did it for those who are not spreadsheet savvy, and also the code sometimes gets broken when filtering (as you had stated some issue in post #41).
 

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Sorry for all the comments. HSU is very well reviewed and has some awesome subwoofers. They are often considered high value for money, too. But HSU is one of the only brands that do not combine shipping cost into the subwoofer cost. This is not negligible.

For example, the VTF-15H Mk 2 is $939 (great deal, right?) + $186 for shipping. Two will be $366 shipping (people buy "subwoofers" for that price :) ).

My recommendation is to add shipping costs into the price of the subwoofer if the manufacturer doesn't do so. In terms of brands I have seen HSU is the only one with separate shipping costs.
 

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Sorry for all the comments. HSU is very well reviewed and has some awesome subwoofers. They are often considered high value for money, too. But HSU is one of the only brands that do not combine shipping cost into the subwoofer cost. This is not negligible.

For example, the VTF-15H Mk 2 is $939 (great deal, right?) + $186 for shipping. Two will be $366 shipping (people buy "subwoofers" for that price :) ).

My recommendation is to add shipping costs into the price of the subwoofer if the manufacturer doesn't do so. In terms of brands I have seen HSU is the only one with separate shipping costs.
They do offer a tiny discount for dual ordering. Rythmik as well (the discount varies by price), SVS does $100 off for all models I believe.
 
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sweetchaos

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Sorry for all the comments. HSU is very well reviewed and has some awesome subwoofers. They are often considered high value for money, too. But HSU is one of the only brands that do not combine shipping cost into the subwoofer cost. This is not negligible.

For example, the VTF-15H Mk 2 is $939 (great deal, right?) + $186 for shipping. Two will be $366 shipping (people buy "subwoofers" for that price :) ).

My recommendation is to add shipping costs into the price of the subwoofer if the manufacturer doesn't do so. In terms of brands I have seen HSU is the only one with separate shipping costs.

Done.
1. Price for HSU subs now includes shipping cost.
2. Added notes for each HSU sub...something like "Price includes US$90 shipping"
 
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sweetchaos

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Improvements...

Added warranty column

Most mfg websites just listed the one warranty (usually for all countries). But some listed "USA-only" warranties, so I used those links where possible.

Deciphering my 'da vinci code':
- If you see "5" that means it's a normal warranty.
- If you see "5/3", that means the enclosure/unit was 5 years warranty, and amplifier inside is 3 year warranty.
- If you see "1(+3)", it means a regular warranty of 1 year, but with 3 years additional available (either through purchasing it from mfg, or by registering the model # with the mfg, in which case they give you the extra warranty for free).
- If you see "1-3" it means warranty wasn't clear, and just said "1 to 3 years".
- If you see "1(or3)" it means warranty is either 1 year, or 3 years, depending on how you purchase the unit.
- If you see "5/2/3", it means there are 3 sepate warranties, as an example: first for unit, second for amplifier, and third for accessory.
- If you see "5?" it means I extrapolated warranty from other models to this one, since I couldn't find information on this model.
- If you see "5/1(+5/+3)" you've found the easter egg. It means the unit has a 5 year warranty on unit and 1 year on amplifier. But if you upgrade the warranty, you get an additional 5 years warranty on the unit (for a total of 10 years) and an additional 3 years warranty on the amplifier (for a total of 4 years).
 
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sweetchaos

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Originally, when Danley Sound Labs released their DTS10 (a tapped horn subwoofer) to the market, it was in the form of a DIY-kit.

The price was US$1000 (approx) (source) and people started building it themselves (example of one build).
Currently, their website shows its a fully assembled active subwoofer, but doesnt list the price, so I contacted them to find out the pricing.

The result?
US$4400 (for a user purchasing from the US dealer).
I've added this price to the database.
 
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sweetchaos

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Interesting... "Ascend Acoustics" website shows they carry Rythmik's subwoofers

Why?
Ascend is a distributor and they decided to offer their customers Rythmik subwoofers.

What's the difference between buying a Rythmik subwoofer from either Ascend (distributor) vs Rythmik (directly from mfg)?
According to one of the Rythmik employees over at AVS Forums? (source)
If you buy a Rythmik sub from Ascend all warranty and support goes through Ascend.
If you buy directly from Rythmik all warranty and support goes through Rythmik.
 

muslhead

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Thanks for doing this. I wish i had this a few months ago it would have saved me a bunch of research and time.
 

warthor

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I wonder if Neumann or Genelec have this data? Maybe that could release it?
I was thinking the same for Power Sound Audio. Tom V. has all the measurements for his subs and often publishes them before release.
 
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