rlal
Member
In the past I have used Anthem. Arcam is better in warranty. I am using my current avr for last 7 years and still good.
I had some trouble with Anthem AVR before.
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Subwoofer Comparison
- Thread starter sweetchaos
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I had some trouble with Anthem AVR before.
I upgraded my system for home theater and music a couple years ago, using Totem Tribe III on wall speakers for the L / R / Centers, and kept an older REL 10inch Sub in the mix. The Totems sound great at the audio shop, and sound great at home but the bass gets muddy and I've tried a number of combinations of settings between my Denon 8500H and the REL with Audyseey, and done the subwoofer walk, and can't seem to get clean bass. I picked the Totem's because they had credible measurements down to 60Hz (Sound and Vision's measurements said the –3-dB point is at 62 Hz, and the –6-dB point is at 57 Hz), but I'm wondering if it's just too much to expect 4inch drivers (even though theirs are custom built) to reach down that far without distortion. So, I'm trying to solve the problem with a better subwoofer set-up, and I'm guessing that subs that do well in mid-bass would give me flexibility to solve bass problems where ever they exist between deep bass and mid-bass. Also, I've read that mid-bass is more location sensitive, so I'm looking at two subs potentially positioned on the ground under the Totem wall speakers. Models that look interesting and would fit the space I have (although 10-12 inch width is best, 12-14 would work) are 8-12inch models: SVS SB-1000 Pro, Rythmik L12 and the Rythmik FM8 dual 8 inch MBMs (which fit the space the best) The SVS 3000 Micros would fit but the lower end specs don't look as good. Music and home theater are equally important to me. I'd like to spend $1,500 total or less (although the MBMs exceed this.) The room is approximately 16 x 21 ft with a 9 ft ceiling. (Not sure if that makes my room small, medium or large, I'm guessing Medium.)
Two Questions:
- Which of those options above provides the best integration flexibility?
- Would using two of the SVS 3000 Micro's solve the low end extension limitations compared to 10-12 inch subwoofers?
Two Questions:
- Which of those options above provides the best integration flexibility?
- Would using two of the SVS 3000 Micro's solve the low end extension limitations compared to 10-12 inch subwoofers?
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I'm considering adding a subwoofer to my office for low frequency extension. Currently running 2x Kali IN8-V2 which start rolling off after around 40hz looking at in-room measured response using REW.
A natural fit would be the Kali WS6.2 subwoofer, which was reviewed well by Erin in a Youtube video. Well controlled distortion and extends down to just a little below 30hz before it starts to roll off significantly.
What other subwoofers around the ~$600 mark should I consider for use in an office/studio environment? A lot of people recommend the Yamaha HS8S, but it has pretty poor distortion. Looking for a sub that measures well and is low distortion. Would adding something like a SVS SB-1000 be a good idea?
A natural fit would be the Kali WS6.2 subwoofer, which was reviewed well by Erin in a Youtube video. Well controlled distortion and extends down to just a little below 30hz before it starts to roll off significantly.
What other subwoofers around the ~$600 mark should I consider for use in an office/studio environment? A lot of people recommend the Yamaha HS8S, but it has pretty poor distortion. Looking for a sub that measures well and is low distortion. Would adding something like a SVS SB-1000 be a good idea?
I was searching for something similar. In a small space you don't need a subwoofer with lots of SPL. Although you may want some extension.
See my post here https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/subwoofer-comparison.20494/post-2106921
In short,
I have the Eris Sub 8 BT now and couldn't be happier. It's not too big in size, nor is it 'overloading the room' and it is still contributing even at low volumes.
For your budget you can get 2! Make sure you get the BT version (you don't have to use its Bluetooth function at all) because it's the latest version with the better cone and amp.
Your other option may be the BK XLS300-DF, the predecessor was BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2 which still has 84.2 db output at 15 Hz in the spreadsheet.
I used a KEF Kube 8b with my Harbeth P3ESRs on the desk top in my 16 sqm office for a while, with some dsp room eq from Equalizer Apo on the computer used as a source. In the end I decided there was not much point and moved the sub to my main system with now three subs,
I ended up ordering the Dynaudio 9S sub. It has a very small footprint for the size of the woofer. Also got a nice discount on it. I'll see how well it integrates after I take some measurements with REW and a UMIK-1. Might need to play around with the crossover and such to find the sweetspot. The small size should also give me a bit more flexibility with moving it around. This sub should reach down to 20hz +/- 3dB. But I couldn't otherwise find independent measurements, and no idea how well it does in the distortion department. But it being in my office I doubt I'll ever be running it very loud, as it's all in a near-field setup. But I definitely want the bass extension as some of the music I listen to reaches very low and then my studio monitors sound kinda puny.
What's the 'feeling' treshold of having a sub make 20 Hz soundwaves, measured at 5cm distance from my feet though?You guys realize the absolute hearing threshold at 20Hz is around 74dB(SPL)?
You need serious output levels to make any impact at 20Hz and below.
Roland68
Major Contributor
Dynaudio specifies 22 Hz (+/- 3 dB) as the lower limit frequency at 85 dB. This is a value under optimal measurement conditions and is unlikely to be achievable in reality.
But even under optimal conditions, this would be a very good result.
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I do not remeber where i saw the measurements but the sb 1000 pro has worse distortion compared to pb 1000 pro.
I have dual sb 1000 pros and they are decent. I also have hs8s and that too is decent.
Where did you see measurement of the hs8s?
Erin’s Audio did a YouTube review comparing HS8S and WS6.2 and the latter was significantly better in all respects.
Curvature
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What's the 'feeling' treshold of having a sub make 20 Hz soundwaves, measured at 5cm distance from my feet though?
Psychophysical comparison of the auditory and tactile perception: a survey - Journal on Multimodal User Interfaces
In this paper, the psychophysical abilities and limitations of the auditory and vibrotactile modality will be discussed. A direct comparison reveals similarities and differences. The knowledge of those is the basis for the design of perceptually optimized auditory-tactile human–machine...
link.springer.com
dB on the left. It shows the reference as 1um/s^2, which allows conversion from acceleration (vibration measurement) to dB (pressure measurement) using a formula.
This ASR post shows the variability in thresholds https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...requency-rotary-subwoofer.28902/#post-1008672 It means you can talk about the charted threshold figures within a tight range and still be accurate from person to person. Regardless, vibrotactile sensation is far less sensitive than hearing and requires even more output.
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Too bad i got 2 hs8s.
cavedriver
Addicted to Fun and Learning
So the threshold for tactile sensation is ~104 dB around 100 Hz? Am I reading that right?View attachment 451148
Psychophysical comparison of the auditory and tactile perception: a survey - Journal on Multimodal User Interfaces
In this paper, the psychophysical abilities and limitations of the auditory and vibrotactile modality will be discussed. A direct comparison reveals similarities and differences. The knowledge of those is the basis for the design of perceptually optimized auditory-tactile human–machine...
dB on the left. It shows the reference as 1um/s^2, which allows conversion from acceleration (vibration measurement) to dB (pressure measurement) using a formula.
This ASR post shows the variability in thresholds https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...requency-rotary-subwoofer.28902/#post-1008672 It means you can talk about the charted threshold figures within a tight range and still be accurate from person to person. Regardless, vibrotactile sensation is far less sensitive than hearing and requires even more output.
Curvature
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Yes, though closer to 105dB.
I extracted the data using the minimum amplitude from these charts.
I've been experimenting with placing my new Dynaudio 9S sub. Here some measurements + final EQ'd result:
Explanation:
The orange line is where I had the sub to the left of my desk, close to a corner where 2 walls meet. Created a big null around 116hz. Crossover on the sub is set to a 100hz high-pass and 60hz low-pass filter (for the Kali IN8-V2 monitors). That gave the best response in that location.
With the green line I'm showing results of when I moved the sub underneath my desk, close to the right post. I played around with crossover settings on the sub and that led me to a 150hz high-pass filter and 60hz low-pass filter.
Then using REW and a house curve, created EQ filters for use in Equalizer APO to bring down some of the peaks, and applied a +3db low-shelf filter centered at 100hz. Otherwise not boosting other dips independently. Results of this are in the red line.
Overall I'd say a pretty big improvement.
As for the Dynaudio 9S, it seems like a good sub. I just wish that the cross-over and gain knobs had notches. It's challenging to create exact reproducible results as you'll not often get it back in the exact same spot when comparing back and forth.
P.S. the measurements deviating at around 3,000hz are most likely due to me bumping into the UMIK-1 stand, and me probably not positioning it back in the exact same place. Measurements taken from one listening position. I was mostly focused on low-end improvement either way.
Here are distortion measurements, taken with REW and a UMIK-1 at the ideal listening position, and with EQ applied.
Explanation:
The orange line is where I had the sub to the left of my desk, close to a corner where 2 walls meet. Created a big null around 116hz. Crossover on the sub is set to a 100hz high-pass and 60hz low-pass filter (for the Kali IN8-V2 monitors). That gave the best response in that location.
With the green line I'm showing results of when I moved the sub underneath my desk, close to the right post. I played around with crossover settings on the sub and that led me to a 150hz high-pass filter and 60hz low-pass filter.
Then using REW and a house curve, created EQ filters for use in Equalizer APO to bring down some of the peaks, and applied a +3db low-shelf filter centered at 100hz. Otherwise not boosting other dips independently. Results of this are in the red line.
Overall I'd say a pretty big improvement.
As for the Dynaudio 9S, it seems like a good sub. I just wish that the cross-over and gain knobs had notches. It's challenging to create exact reproducible results as you'll not often get it back in the exact same spot when comparing back and forth.
P.S. the measurements deviating at around 3,000hz are most likely due to me bumping into the UMIK-1 stand, and me probably not positioning it back in the exact same place. Measurements taken from one listening position. I was mostly focused on low-end improvement either way.
Here are distortion measurements, taken with REW and a UMIK-1 at the ideal listening position, and with EQ applied.
Attachments
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Speaking of subwoofers (if it's the right section) I'll take this opportunity to ask some questions.
I have to replace my very old B&W ASW10 (S1).
Always reading positive reviews or tried SVS SB 2000 a disappointment, an annoying sound like "plastic" long bass that didn't follow the music... in practice it was always annoying as if it dirty the music, probably with home theater use it is better as it has a notable impact and SPL but on music we are not there, I tried every possible adjustment.
To orient myself on something more musical I looked at Rel Serie HT 1005 or Velodyne Deep Blue 10, have you had the chance to listen to them?
I could also play it safe and get the new B&W ASW10 S3 since I was very happy with the old model, but you know when you feel like changing it's a problem!
Thanks in advance.
I have to replace my very old B&W ASW10 (S1).
Always reading positive reviews or tried SVS SB 2000 a disappointment, an annoying sound like "plastic" long bass that didn't follow the music... in practice it was always annoying as if it dirty the music, probably with home theater use it is better as it has a notable impact and SPL but on music we are not there, I tried every possible adjustment.
To orient myself on something more musical I looked at Rel Serie HT 1005 or Velodyne Deep Blue 10, have you had the chance to listen to them?
I could also play it safe and get the new B&W ASW10 S3 since I was very happy with the old model, but you know when you feel like changing it's a problem!
Thanks in advance.
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