Subwoofer Comparison

[Tupisac]

Rly the JBL sub is that good ? I'm curious what's the best sub under 1000$

I'm looking into <400$ solutions, so my searches might not be relevant. But when you google "best studio sub" and check the reviews JBL is usually in the top 3.

I've ordered SB-1000. If everything goes well I might get the chance to test JBL at the same time. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Sancus]

would you guys recommend 4 smaller subs vs 2 bigger subs?
i am going to sell my arendal sub2 because i can not find a matching one and replace that with probably either four of https://arendalsound.com/product/1961-subwoofer-1s/ or two of https://arendalsound.com/product/1723-subwoofer-2s/
or any other recommendation i should look at? i live in the EU as a sidenote (so i can not get SVS for US prices :/ )

I assume you mean the 1723 Subwoofer 2? That is just the older version of the 2S, you could simply use all 3. No need to sell it. Subs do not need to be identical, but similar output capability and design(sealed/ported) is ideal and you already have that.

If you're set on replacing them all, 4x 1961S will definitely outperform 2x 1723 2S.

 

[slacki]

f you're set on replacing them all, 4x 1961S will definitely outperform 2x 1723 2S.

but the 2s goes deeper, so how should 4x outperform the 2 that go deeper? i can get a better/more linear curve, but i wont gain any depth
if i can keep my existing arendal sub2 (sealed) and mix it with a arendal 1723 v2 that would be awesome, but i am afraid i will get more trouble than fun with it

 

[Willem]

Subwoofers do not have to be identical. See here for a pretty extreme example of one really big subwoofer that goes down very deep, combined with a small one that only serves to smoothen the response: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2020/05/musings-measurements-subwoofers-to.html
Floyed Toole says more or less the same on page 246 of his book, although he advises that they should be of the same design type (i.e. either ported or sealed).
@slacky You want two things, deeper more powerful bass and a smoother flatter response. Deeper bass requires a larger size, but smoother (and over a wider listening area) requires more subs (and dsp room eq).
Financially, selling gear is rarely a good strategy, so my advice would be to keep what you have and just add at least one big subwoofer. If you locate it in a corner it will go really deep. The existing two smaller subwoofers in uncorrelated locations can then be used to better smoothen the response compared to what you have now. This is exactly what Earl Geddes advises:

Adding dsp room eq is then the other half of the strategy. Multi Sub Optimizer is probably the best tactic for that, although not the easiest one:

It will smoothen the response over a pretty wide listening area and not just at the main listening position.

 

[slacki]

The existing two smaller subwoofers

right now i only have one subwoofer, the arendal sub2 (legacy/old one).
now i am thinking about in getting only the arendal 1723 1v as addition and keep the old one, i guess/hope that makes sense

 

[Willem]

OK, I misunderstood. I would always keep what you have and go from there. I have now looked up what you have and that is a big monster sub that goes pretty deep. Locate it in a corner for even deeper bass, and go from there. Since you do not really need more deep bass, my advise would be to add one or preferably more somewhat smaller sealed subs, plus MSO, for a smoother response. By the way, how big is the room?

 

[Tupisac]

I've found disassembly videos for LSR310S and SB-1000. Judging by pure looks - JBL basket looks like a joke.

On the other hand JBL box looks much better - at least it has some bracing. But no foam?

Assuming deserted island scenario - which one would YOU choose?

 

[slacki]

By the way, how big is the room?

7.5m x 4.6m x 2.55m (LxWxH)
But there is also a little piece of kitchen, its like a big room and a smaller room, separated by a very heavy cupboard.
I am now considering either two times https://arendalsound.com/product/1723-subwoofer-1s/ or one https://arendalsound.com/product/1723-subwoofer-2s/
I guess its better to go with the two 1s, put them in the corners behind me, and the sub2 in the front

 

[Willem]

In my book that is a medium sized room, so the single existing dual opposed sub should be enough for deep and loud bass. I would go for two additional 1723 1s subs for the smoothest response. On top of that, they will even add a bit of low end extension and some power. But the biggest contribution of moving from one to three subs would be for a smoother response across a rather larger listening area. You will probably benefit most if you choose uncorrelated locations for the two additional subs. And of course, use MSO.

 

[slacki]

use MSO.

is audyssey enough? i only have a marantz cinema 50, no dirac yet :/
for everything else i use REW to measure and try to optimize
my HTPC runs with coreelec, there is probably no such optimizer available

 

[Willem]

Audyssey is good, but MSO is better. You can combine Audyssey up to higher frequencies (but preferably not too high) and MSO for just the subs. You measure with REW, then construct filters with MSO on the PC, and next upload those to a minDSP 2x4 HD. After that, you can run Audyssey.

 

[Tupisac]

Talked to a competent music producer. He basically said that although the kick might go as low as 25 Hz in electronic genres, any sub that goes to 35 Hz relatively flat is more then sufficient for working with music. FX production is a whole other thing and often requires solutions going as deep as 10-15 Hz at high SPL levels. Those frequencies are a lottery when it comes to rooms and require different budget combined with quite a bit of effort to get right.

Based on that information I've decided to cancel the SB-1000 order. Dealing with returns before Chrismas might be risky. Also, I feel nothing but love for my JBL LSR305 monitors and I think the best way is to "keep family together" and go with LSR310S. This way I can keep using balanced connections, not worry about crossover settings and have a complete, dedicated set from one manufacturer with nice resale factor. I think it's the smartest way to go and decided not to bother with theoretically less compatible solution even if it was theoretically better.

Thanks for all the input and help. If this sub is at least half as nice to listen to as my monitors I'll report with enthusiastic impressions in couple of days

 

[3125b]

I just got a sub for my desk setup.
Despite my dislike for Dynaudio I bought a Sub 9S because it was on sale and their specs are just ridiculous. It's a tiny little thing, sealed with a (supposedly) 9.5" woofer with a pretty short surround. Spec is 106dBSPL with 22Hz -3dB point.
The woofer measures 23cm (9") incl. the cage, so it would need 50mm Xmax (actual ~8" diaphragm) to reach their spec

That being said, I was actually positively surprised by the performance. It's good for what it is and definitely better than cheaper studio subs (like the weak KRK 10.4S that I know from a friend) despite its size and not being ported.
I'm sure max SPL is rather limited, but it will do what I'm comfortable with asking from it in my bedroom.
Actual -3dB point seems to be around 28Hz which is pretty good (just estimating by ear), useable in-room extension is ~24Hz in my setup. The crossover is a little (or lot) weird, it has either no, 60 or 80Hz high-pass to the monitors and then independant from that a dial for the sub low-pass without indications of frquency, so you just have to guess. I got it right on the first try, but it's still annoying.
I'm not sure why they wouldn't be honest or at least more transparent about their specs. The performance is good, no need to be untruthful.

 

[Sancus]

but the 2s goes deeper, so how should 4x outperform the 2 that go deeper? i can get a better/more linear curve, but i wont gain any depth
if i can keep my existing arendal sub2 (sealed) and mix it with a arendal 1723 v2 that would be awesome, but i am afraid i will get more trouble than fun with it

The 1723 2S is also sealed with the same driver layout, I don't know why it would be trouble. Don't mix ported and sealed, other than that it doesn't matter except in terms of output. The 2S only plays maybe 3-4dB louder than the 1961 1S, that's just physics for you. You're correct that it plays deeper, and if 10-15hz output is important to you, then yes I would say the 2x 2S has a small advantage. But I would personally prioritize smoothness in the audible band and that is going to be better with 4 subs than 2.

If you keep your existing sub, then you can have 3, which will be almost as good in terms of smoothness and better at sub-20hz output. The new Arendal subs have delay and filters built-in, so you can use MSO as I did without a miniDSP... but I'm not sure whether the old sub includes this or not. If it does not, you'll want a miniDSP. I would strongly recommend MSO, as I posted about earlier in the thread, it performs better than Audyssey alone for multiple subs. There are some helpful miniDSP tutorials, a video, and the manual for MSO is good as well (if long).

 

[sweetchaos]

Updated prices (last update was about 2 months ago, if I recall...I know...I was busy):

- SVS = prices stayed the same
- Rythmik = prices stayed the same, 2 models discontinued
- HSU = prices dropped for subs by about $10-20, but shipping increased, so kind of a wash, if not slightly higher than before
- JTR Speakers = prices went up by around $100-300
- Monoprice = saw the biggest drops, we're talking up to $500. I don't know how Monoprice keeps dropping prices during this global shortage, while everyone else keeps raising prices. Kudos to them.
- Arendal = highest tier sub increased by $100, the rest stayed the same

It seems to me that Monoprice is crushing their competition in terms of value for money this season.

 

[FrantzM]

Audyssey is good, but MSO is better. You can combine Audyssey up to higher frequencies (but preferably not too high) and MSO for just the subs. You measure with REW, then construct filters with MSO on the PC, and next upload those to a minDSP 2x4 HD. After that, you can run Audyssey.

+1

 

[slacki]

you'll want a miniDSP

this requires an umik-1, right? i have a behringer :/
Any other alternatives that might be "better"? I dont need the integrated DAC and in some reviews, i read that the SND is quiet high, so wondering if there is something "better" in +- the same price range.

 

[Willem]

I had a look at the manual for your existing big subwoofer and unfortunately it looks as if it does not have any filters. If that is correct you do indeed need the miniDSP 2x4 HD for a better result than with just Audyssey.
Is this Behringer mic a usb mic? If so, you need a timing reference (see MSO manual). In addition, a calibration file is recommended for more serious use. Can you get one?
The miniDSP 2x4 HD did not measure great, but such imperfection is not nearly as problematic at low frequencies. Personally, I would not use it for my main speakers.

 

[3125b]

I don't know how Monoprice keeps dropping prices during this global shortage, while everyone else keeps raising prices.

Right? In Europe their subs have been on sale for months now, becoming ever cheaper. The 10" 2nd gen is down to 464€ by now, the 12" 2nd gen is down to 640€ (the SVS PB 2000 Pro costs 1349€ meanwhile ...), all including ~20% sales tax, free shipping and sometimes additional rebates on top. Many models are sold out most of the time, looks to me like they would sell well enough if they raised the prices.

 

[slacki]

Is this Behringer mic a usb mic?

no, its a XLR, connect to my focusrite scarlett 2i2 via usb (thats how i do my REW measurements)
Wondering if a miniDSP 2x4 would be enough only for that single subwoofer. its about 150 EUR less