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Subwoofer Comparison

Tupisac

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Some studio subs have a significant advantage though, they include a (often even optimised) highpass filter for the corresponding monitors, in the lower price range for example the subs of JBL and Kali.

JBL sub is universally praised in all budget studio sub reviews as incredibly smooth and good sounding. I own a pair of JBL 305, so it is my safest, most convenient and also cheapest option for now. I was pretty convinced up until I've started asking around here and on reddit.

Is crossover curve this critical, assuming additional measurements and correction with REW? Usually in most of the reviews people stated that all those studio subs are pretty universal and work well with all popular monitors. Some suggested getting a sub with variable crossover for better matching with bigger monitors, but in my case it's not the problem.

The thing is no pro-gear reviewer ever touched home theater stuff and vice versa. And on paper SVS SB-1000 crushes every studio sub in given price range. I wonder why no budget artists, novice producers or home studio geeks considered such option. It's almost always KRK, Yamaha or Genelec...
 

thewas

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Is crossover curve this critical, assuming additional measurements and correction with REW?
Not really, but REW on its own is not enough to implement a physical highpass filter for the satellites, so additional hardware will be needed.
 

fieldcar

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I'm pretty sure the JBL LSR310S subwoofer applies a selectable HPF to the outputs. You should be good to go with the 80Hz crossover selected.


Crossover Settings and “Bass Management”
“Bass management” is a term that refers to the practice of using a subwoofer to reproduce the bass frequencies of the main channels. Because of the physiology of the human ear, low frequencies are largely non-directional. Given an adequate listening distance, we can’t easily tell where bass signals are coming from. Thus, it makes little or no difference to the listening experience whether the bass component in a sound comes from the originating speaker (which may be off to your left or right, or even behind you) or from a dedicated subwoofer which is better equipped – and better positioned in the room – to reproduce low frequencies than even a full-range monitor. For that reason, you may want to use an LSR310S subwoofer to reproduce all the bass frequencies in your system. If you are using an LSR310S Subwoofer in your system, bass management is accomplished simply by routing your Left and Right mix channels to the Subwoofer inputs and then from the subwoofer outputs to the Left and Right speakers. The frequency at which the subwoofer divides signals to the sub and the left and right speakers can be set using the Crossover Frequency selector switch on the input panel of the LSR310S Subwoofer. The 80Hz filter setting is recommended when the goal is a full range reference monitor system that accurately portrays content below the cut-off of the main speakers. The 80 Hz crossover provides a smooth transition and between the subwoofer and the main speakers, while optimizing the blend of low frequency in the system, without audible localization of bass, creating the perception of a full range system with no subwoofer. To produce a smooth transition between the speakers and the subwoofer and the goal is an accurate representation of frequency response in the program material. Two additional settings are provided: XLF and External. XLF A trend in music production is the requirement for enhanced low frequency response in the control room. Artists and producers involved in the production of dance music appreciate the ability to audition their work as it might sound when played on a system with enhanced low frequency tuning, commonly employed in dance clubs. A JBL first, the LSR310S includes a special XLF Extended Low Frequency setting that emulates the response curve applied to a club playback system. When the XLF crossover setting is selected, a 120Hz High Pass Filter is engaged in conjunction with a 10 dB boost at 60Hz with a bandwidth of 0.5 octaves. Using this setting, the bass output more than doubles and the character of low frequency approximates that of a club system. Continuous low frequency with very high peak SPL is made possible by JBL’s new long excursion low frequency driver working in concert with JBL’s patented Slip Stream™ Port design, and powered by a 200 Watt class D amplifier. A protective circuit allows the 310S to continuously produce low frequency at high output without failure. In situations where positioning will allow, an additional 6 dB of output can be achieved by positioning the LSR310S subwoofer adjacent to a wall or at the intersection of two walls.

1669908103350.png
 

Tupisac

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I have an audio interface connected to a mac and use software to apply curve correction from REW. No addtional hardware is planned, I expect sub to handle the signal routing and filtering.

I've asked SVS customer support and their SB-1000 can do that without problems - the only trade off is a downgrade from balanced connection to RCAs.
 

thewas

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I've asked SVS customer support and their SB-1000 can do that without problems - the only trade off is a downgrade from balanced connection to RCAs.
Yes, its line level outputs feature a fixed 80 Hz 12 dB/octave high pass filter. With passive loudspeakers though such a filter cannot be used easily as you need an amp after the filtered output.
 

Tupisac

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Yes, its line level outputs feature a fixed 80 Hz 12 dB/octave high pass filter.

So, assuming no problems with going unbalanced and having active JBL 305 monitors designed to be cut at 80 Hz - would you personally go with LSR310S or SB-1000 for a hobby studio and audiophile uses? We're talking strictly music in 3 x 3,5 m room.
 

Druvicious

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Observation:

Since I've been tracking subwoofers for several years now, I noticed that the latest version of Brent Butterworth's spreadsheet no longer includes SVS PB-1000. Whereas I had copy of the spreadsheet that I've downloaded in Dec 2019 that has it.

Brent's spreadsheet from Dec 2019:

I've added this data to my spreadsheet:
I don't know why he no longer includes the data for SVS PB-1000, whereas he did originally.
Of course, I'm including it in the database for everyone's benefit. ;)
Am I incorrect, or do the numbers from Brent's spreadsheet not match yours? For example, at 25 hz he has 112.1 and you have 106.1...
 
OP
sweetchaos

sweetchaos

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Am I incorrect, or do the numbers from Brent's spreadsheet not match yours? For example, at 25 hz he has 112.1 and you have 106.1...
There is a 6db difference, as explained previously. I suggest you take a look at my documentation. It’s explained in post #1 and inside my spreadsheet.
 

thewas

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So, assuming no problems with going unbalanced and having active JBL 305 monitors designed to be cut at 80 Hz - would you personally go with LSR310S or SB-1000 for a hobby studio and audiophile uses? We're talking strictly music in 3 x 3,5 m room.
I would go for the one with in a total better set of measurements, the problem is that such a hard to find for must subs.
 

james57

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I have an audio interface connected to a mac and use software to apply curve correction from REW. No addtional hardware is planned, I expect sub to handle the signal routing and filtering.

I've asked SVS customer support and their SB-1000 can do that without problems - the only trade off is a downgrade from balanced connection to RCAs.
Would you be so kind to provide some details on the audio interface in which you apply the filters ?
 

Tupisac

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I would go for the one with in a total better set of measurements, the problem is that such a hard to find for must subs.
Yep, can't find anything on JBL nor SVS in terms of distortion and resonances...
Technically SVS goes to low 20s and JBL does not, but that's all I know. Also JBL is ported, down firing and has huge box. SVS has none of those things.


Would you be so kind to provide some details on the audio interface in which you apply the filters ?
I apply filters on my computer, not audio interface itself. Basically system-wide software equaliser. I use SoundSource for mac. Popular solution for windows is Equalizer APO - here's a tutorial for that:

 
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jsilvela

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That’s because REL’s marketing strategy has worked on many, unfortunately.

I have hope for newcomers, looking for best performance/dollar who’ll see my spreadsheet instead.
newcomer to subs here, and a month ago I got a REL T5x. Had not seen your data, nor discovered ASR yet.
I had been thinking of a Rhythmik L12, but getting it to Europe seemed prohibitive.
One thing that won me over to REL, though, was that they are not going for "flat response to couple with the flat response from your system above crossover frequency". I kind of dread the complexity of integrating a sub. Seems to require an AVR / AVP so you can choose the right crossover frequency, then EQ to avoid bumps etc.
The REL approach of connecting to high level inputs, then integrate by ear...
It may be scientifically inferior, but it's easier.
For those of us who want low bass, without getting mics for calibration or an AVR to tune crossover frequency, what would be a good recommendation?
Awesome effort on that comparison, by the way!
 

Willem

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There is no need for matching other than esthetic. I would just add one or two to what you have. However, what do you want to achieve?
 

tlkmx

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JBL sub is universally praised in all budget studio sub reviews as incredibly smooth and good sounding. I own a pair of JBL 305, so it is my safest, most convenient and also cheapest option for now. I was pretty convinced up until I've started asking around here and on reddit.

Is crossover curve this critical, assuming additional measurements and correction with REW? Usually in most of the reviews people stated that all those studio subs are pretty universal and work well with all popular monitors. Some suggested getting a sub with variable crossover for better matching with bigger monitors, but in my case it's not the problem.

The thing is no pro-gear reviewer ever touched home theater stuff and vice versa. And on paper SVS SB-1000 crushes every studio sub in given price range. I wonder why no budget artists, novice producers or home studio geeks considered such option. It's almost always KRK, Yamaha or Genelec...
Rly the JBL sub is that good ? I'm curious what's the best sub under 1000$
I currently have a cheapo adam sub with my adam monitors and i'm gonna upgrade the whole setup.
The thing is some subs just match well some monitors because of the curves available behind the sub to mathchhh
 

Beershaun

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Rly the JBL sub is that good ? I'm curious what's the best sub under 1000$
I currently have a cheapo adam sub with my adam monitors and i'm gonna upgrade the whole setup.
The thing is some subs just match well some monitors because of the curves available behind the sub to mathchhh
Check out the spreadsheet at the beginning of this thread and look for the best scores in the budget you set.
 

tlkmx

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Check out the spreadsheet at the beginning of this thread and look for the best scores in the budget you set.
Ive did but they arent rly *cleanly ranked. Like there is so much data. Not like best subwoofer for x prices.
Sorry that im not diving deep enough but surely we could extrapolate something as clear
 
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