SUB + Stereo System

[Georgeadv]

I feel you - it's ridiculous

SVS have a nice subwoofer matching tool where they tell you the LPF and slope to match with, I'd say near all popular speakers.

For mine it was 60hz 24db Slope.

In the end it's 'to taste' IMO.

Yes that tool could temp me to purchase the sb3000
It seems that it fits into my setup and I could eq the response to my room

 

[Georgeadv]

Well that bit in the manual doesn't account for feeding a high-passed signal back to the integrated amp. I took a look at your manual, I doubt the analog inputs will be suitable for a loop. You have the two rca inputs, but it doesn't appear either will work for passing the high-passed signal back to the integrated amp as you'll have the input set for the source (say optical input for example) and using the analog rca inputs will be separate from processing of the input source. Once upon a time a tape loop or processor loop would take care of such. You really don't have a good option for even inserting external bass management (like via minidsp) that I can see. Might ask Hegel....

Hegel said that this is not possible and not recommend… it would require a split for the pre and power amp section and that would introduce noise..

What if i used an extrernal dac? Dac>sub>hpf>hegel line in?

Also, in light of their response, would i even be able
To use a standalone dac like a qutest with the hegel? Or would it have to be a preamp dac?

 

[Beershaun]

I recommend keeping it simple if you want to keep your Hegel and just add a sub. Run the pre-out to your Sub and get a sub that will do the lowpass filter and bass management and phasing/delay management for just the sub. Then you just dial your sub in to match your mains.

The only other reasonable alternative is to sell the Hegel and get an integrated amp that is designed for 2.1. And let Hegel know why you are dumping their amp.

I think trying to add an external DAC is a band aid which is not addressing the problem. At the price of the Chord qutest+selling the Hegel you can get a very nice integrated amp that would do 2.1 for you.

 

[GDK]

Hegel said that this is not possible and not recommend… it would require a split for the pre and power amp section and that would introduce noise..

What if i used an extrernal dac? Dac>sub>hpf>hegel line in?

Also, in light of their response, would i even be able
To use a standalone dac like a qutest with the hegel? Or would it have to be a preamp dac?

I have done that in the past, with my RME ADI-2 DAC. You need something ahead of the cross-over to control the volume, otherwise the subs and mains will not be at the same relative volume. However, then your Hegel effectively becomes a power amp.

I would try what @Beershaun is suggesting, in terms of running your mains full range, and see if you like it before disappearing down the rabbit hole...

 

[Chrispy]

Yep the Hegel is best suited for a high level connection capable sub. This kind of 2ch gear is why Rel still survives I suppose. Noise, eh? They can't figure that out?

 

[Georgeadv]

I guess I have no other choice..

my measurements show that the kefs go down to 40hz at 75db and am not sure that a rel with high level would augment the sound enough… t7x goes down to 30hz

The rme has a pre amp, does that if I connected the qutest to the amp directly I wouldnt be able to adjust the volume from the hegels preamp?

 

[Chrispy]

I guess I have no other choice..

my measurements show that the kefs go down to 40hz at 75db and am not sure that a rel with high level would augment the sound enough… t7x goes down to 30hz

The rme has a pre amp, does that if I connected the qutest to the amp directly I wouldnt be able to adjust the volume from the hegels preamp?

I just generally prefer subs that are adequate to at least 20hz myself. I was going to say otherwise but need to look at your manual again to see if one input can make your Hegel act as amp only....think I saw something about a home theater bypass input? That might do it....otherwise both might be active for volume control or perhaps the dac has a fixed line level out to bypass it's preamp?

 

[Georgeadv]

I just generally prefer subs that are adequate to at least 20hz myself. I was going to say otherwise but need to look at your manual again to see if one input can make your Hegel act as amp only....think I saw something about a home theater bypass input? That might do it....otherwise both might be active for volume control or perhaps the dac has a fixed line level out to bypass it's preamp?

I guess i might go with kc62 since i dont have access to all those other subs and rel t7x does not go beyond 30hz

The qutest is just a dac, it does not have a pre amp

 

[Jim Matthews]

I just generally prefer subs that are adequate to at least 20hz myself.

From the diagram presented above, the room isn't large enough to propagate a 20 Hz sound wave (17 meters).

Maybe 40 Hz, but not likely much lower.

 

[Georgeadv]

From the diagram presented above, the room isn't large enough to propagate a 20 Hz sound wave (17 meters).

Maybe 40 Hz, but not likely much lower.

What do you mean? The room could not accommodate the bass? It would create peaks?

 

[sigbergaudio]

I would suggest you purchase an amplifier that supports subwoofers. We've seen a few similar threads here on ASR, and have many customers with the same question, so we've compiled a list of some options here https://www.sigbergaudio.no/en/blogs/news/stereo-amplifiers-with-proper-support-for-subwoofers

 

[Jim Matthews]

I'm out of my depth, to be sure.

I was under the impression that a room must have at least one span of 1/2 wavelength or lower frequencies will suffer destructive interference (cancellation).

This is a problem that plagues dipole loudspeakers, too.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I'm out of my depth, to be sure.

I was under the impression that a room must have at least one span of 1/2 wavelength or lower frequencies will suffer destructive interference (cancellation).

This is a problem that plagues dipole loudspeakers, too.

If you're saying that small rooms can't have deep bass, that's not a thing. But you will/can suffer from peaks and dips - where those end up will depend on your location, the subwoofer location and the size of the room.

 

[Jim Matthews]

If you're saying that small rooms can't have deep bass, that's not a thing. But you will/can suffer from peaks and dips - where those end up will depend on your location, the subwoofer location and the size of the room.

Have a look at the OP room layout.

 

[Georgeadv]

I would suggest you purchase an amplifier that supports subwoofers. We've seen a few similar threads here on ASR, and have many customers with the same question, so we've compiled a list of some options here https://www.sigbergaudio.no/en/blogs/news/stereo-amplifiers-with-proper-support-for-subwoofers

Thats very helpful and thanks.

I would like to keep the hegel for its power amp capabilities. Also its a new purchase

If i full frequency does not work I could incorporate a minidsp however i would prefer a different dac…

 

[sigbergaudio]

Have a look at the OP room layout.

Looks interesting, at least it's anything but square (which would suck), and seems like no wall-to-wall distances that are the same as floor-to-ceiling either. He will get lots of peaks and dips like everyone else. This must be 20-25m^2, so not that small either?

 

[Jim Matthews]

This must be 20-25m^2, so not that small either?

It is almost conical, and longer than my own "music room".
The multiple (short) pathways offer multiple diffraction points which I would suspect of creating nulls almost everywhere in the seating area.

With so many corners, I would expect cancelations 4x the distance from the source to any given corner (and there are LOTS of corners).

 

[Georgeadv]

Looks interesting, at least it's anything but square (which would suck), and seems like no wall-to-wall distances that are the same as floor-to-ceiling either. He will get lots of peaks and dips like everyone else. This must be 20-25m^2, so not that small either?

The listening area is on the left which is not ideal but cant change the layout..

You are right about the measurements unfortunately..

 

[sigbergaudio]

The listening area is on the left which is not ideal but cant change the layout..

You are right about the measurements unfortunately..

Highpassing the mains so you can get a DSP-enabled subwoofer (or ideally two) covering up to 100hz would massively improve this.

And your graph isn't any worse than most rooms.

 

[Georgeadv]

Highpassing the mains so you can get a DSP-enabled subwoofer (or ideally two) covering up to 100hz would massively improve this.

And your graph isn't any worse than most rooms.

I ordered some acoustic treatment from GIK to try to fix some of that..

That was my main target however it seems that the amp is limiting my choices…

I will certainty purchase a sub with HPF and evaluate my choices after that