Sub SB1000 PRO …

[Deleted member 95443]

Not sure this is right forum..

My first post .

I own the Yamaha AS701. Evoke 20 speakers.

I want to add 1 or 2 sub to the amp . My understanding this is difficult since the amp has fixed low pass filter shy of 100 Hz.

Can I connect the SVS or another sub from another manufacturer to the AS701 sub output and use either 50 Hz or 80 Hz. Would I get bass filtering issues if I adjust the sub to 100 Hz.

Considering the Wiim Ultra streamer …
I keep reading the sub connection is more intuitive for active speakers . Is this true ?

Would it be better to use speaker terminal B and by pass the Yamaha sub filter ? SVs tells me this is better , and I can use the extra spare terminals. Is this true ?

Read you need connect the sub (high level) to the same terminals like the speakers .

Or is it better to invest in the Wiim Ultra Amp . This surly has to be made for sub management.

Thanks !

 

[vsch]

I'd probably go for the WiiM Amp Ultra.

To properly integrate a subwoofer, measurements and DSP matter much more than the specific subwoofer brand. Ideally you want:

• adjustable crossover
• time/phase alignment
• delay for the mains
• room correction

Without these, sub integration is largely trial and error and, at least for me, it never worked satisfactorily.

The manufacturer of the subwoofer is less important than low-frequency extension and SPL capability. Once properly integrated and operated within their limits, competently designed subs tend to sound the same and disappear.

A used Denon AVR with Audyssey XT32 could also be a very good option. These support multiple independent subwoofers (which can make a big difference) and are compatible with @OCA 's A1 Acoustix tool, which largely automates sub integration and room correction and gives excellent results.

 

[Deleted member 95443]

What about adding the Ultra streamer ?

Doesn’t it have the exact same features?

But it can act as pre amp and of course a streamer .

I’m quite fond of the Yamaha amp. Plenty of dynamic control . Has anyone tried connecting a sub to the AS701 sub output?

 

[Deleted member 95443]

I’ve read it is better to buy the Ultra Amp-simply because of the volume control can be confusing with the sub.

But I am not sure if fixed output level would remedy this, should I connect a sub to the Ultra streamer, and connect the Ultra to the Yamaha .

 

[vsch]

If you'd go for the streamer and continue using your Yamaha amp, you'd have to keep the volume on the Yamaha amp fixed (never touch it again, like the gain on the sub) and use the WiiM streamer for volume control. I guess it'd work but wouldn't be particularly convenient.

 

[Deleted member 95443]

If you'd go for the streamer and continue using your Yamaha amp, you'd have to keep the volume on the Yamaha amp fixed (never touch it again, like the gain on the sub) and use the WiiM streamer for volume control. I guess it'd work but wouldn't be particularly convenient.

That’s what I’ve read too.

Sorry , English is not my native language.

Considering going for the Ultra Amp.

Do you guys think it has enough power for the Evoke 20? Dyn are power hungry beast’s! The Yamaha drives them extremely well ! !

Of course high passing the main speakers would help.

I’d appreciate if anyone could confirm if SVs advice to use 50 Hz-24 Db slope. And adjusting the sub volume accordingly to the main speakers /so it blends in with the main speakers.

I know it would be full range -yet many are happy with full range. REL. And if use the second spare set of speaker terminals, hence I do not need use spades-bare wire directly to the same terminals like my speaker.

Or should /need to use the same terminals like the speakers are connected to ?…

I’ll just use 16 AVG speaker cable because I’ve read little current … I am not expert. Still I’d rather just use the Yamaha sub connection. It sums from mono to stereo .

What RCA “sub cable “ should I use?

Considering Van Damme., My dealer wants to sell me expensive AQ ones . Red river ones . I doubt there is any difference!

What I mean should go down the low level route ; should I use 1 cable . Or splitter one.

I am hoping some AS701 could chime in. If anyone tried both high level and low level .

In my view I’m hoping Wiim release the likes C399. With 2 sub outputs.

 

[staticV3]

Do you guys think it has enough power for the Evoke 20? Dyn are power hungry beast’s! The Yamaha drives them extremely well ! !

The WiiM Amp Ultra plays 95% as loud as the A-S701 at 8Ω and 97% as loud at 4Ω.

WiiM Ultra-> A-S701 would work fine, if you use the Yamaha as a Power Amp and plug the Sub into the WiiM.

WiiM Amp Ultra would also work fine as a replacment for the Yamaha.

Yes you could use the Yamaha's Sub out, or Speaker out with a Speaker level input subwoofer, but either of these solutions would be at a disadvantage compared to the WiiM's Sub out due to lack of Sub integration features.

 

[popej]

The WiiM Amp Ultra plays 95% as loud as the A-S701

That's a riddle
50% less would be half as loud, which would be -10dB?
Then 5% less loud would be -1dB, which is about 80% of power?

 

[staticV3]

That's a riddle
50% less would be half as loud, which would be -10dB?
Then 5% less loud would be -1dB, which is about 80% of power?

When I write loudness percentages or loudness ratios, I always mean "ratio x for loudness" as it is written here: https://sengpielaudio.com/calculator-levelchange.htm

E.g. +10dB=twice as loud.

 

[Deleted member 95443]

The WiiM Amp Ultra plays 95% as loud as the A-S701 at 8Ω and 97% as loud at 4Ω.

WiiM Ultra-> A-S701 would work fine, if you use the Yamaha as a Power Amp and plug the Sub into the WiiM.

WiiM Amp Ultra would also work fine as a replacment for the Yamaha.

Yes you could use the Yamaha's Sub out, or Speaker out with a Speaker level input subwoofer, but either of these solutions would be at a disadvantage compared to the WiiM's Sub out due to lack of Sub integration features.

But the AS701 doesn’t have the opportunity to act like a power amp. If I’m not mistaken. Btw, it is new MK2 version , which appears to have different build layout inside of the amp.

Any suggestions should I run the SB1000 PRO with the Yamaha. High level or low level ?

 

[Deleted member 95443]

Should I need to adjust the volume dial on let’s say 9, o clock(Yamaha), then use the Wiim to control the volum. It’s not ideal.

Isn’t there any AS701 owners who can chime in…

 

[vsch]

The conceptual sketch below and the outlined steps may clarify most of your questions. However, I don't know exactly how this is implemented with WiiM products, as I only use a miniDSP in one setup and an AVR in another. The basic procedure should be roughly the same, though.

Option 1 / WiiM Amp (preferred)
WiiM Amp → High-pass filter (e.g. 80 Hz) → Speakers
WiiM Amp → Low-pass filter (e.g. 80 Hz) via sub out (low level) → Subwoofer (fixed gain)

Option 2 / WiiM Streamer (less convenient)
WiiM Streamer → High-pass filter (e.g. 80 Hz) → Yamaha amp (fixed volume / gain) → Speakers
WiiM Streamer → Low-pass filter (e.g. 80 Hz) via sub out (low level) → Subwoofer (fixed gain)

In both options, volume is controlled via the WiiM device.

How to set up the crossover in either option:

1. Set the sub gain
Set the sub gain so that bass around the crossover region is roughly 0–3 dB higher than the main speakers. Measure this with pink noise and a measurement microphone (or, alternatively, an spl meter on your smartphone) if possible. Otherwise, start by matching the perceived bass level by ear and fine-tune later.

2. Set the crossover frequency
Set the crossover frequency (i.e. the high-pass and low-pass filters). Start with 80 Hz, but you may also want to try 90 or even 100 Hz. Generally, the higher you set the crossover frequency, the more your speakers will be relieved of bass and the more clean headroom you will have, but the more localizable the sub may become. I'd choose a steep filter slope of 24 dB/octave or even 48 dB/octave (if available).

3. Run room correction
Run the WiiM room correction (I think it's called RoomFit). This should help reduce the resonances in your room that otherwise make the bass boomy. You may also want to add a high shelf filter of roughly -4db above 150Hz to (indirectly) boost bass (this is pure preference).

Cheers!

 

[popej]

I always mean "ratio x for loudness"

Yes. But going down to 5% with regard of subjective assessment has no real meaning, it is a mathematical abstraction. But maybe a good illustration of power difference.

 

[Deleted member 95443]

Thanks for all your help!

But …

Should I keep the Yamaha .

Since it has fixed low pass filter 100 HZ ( full range ).

Whether it is low level or high level.

What settings is the best for the SB1000 PRO.

Do you guys recommend splitter Y-RCA cable . Simply 1 RCA cable , should I use low level .

Oh, can I connect one mini DSP to the AS701 or the Node N132 streamer .

I know the Node has Dirac . Would it be better to connect the sub using Dirac directly to the Node .

My understanding is that Dirac has to be activated for full / the best bass management.

I know it is not optimal without updating to Dirac.

Bluesound support is of little help …

 

[vsch]

I don't think that you need a minidsp if you drive the SB-1000 Pro off your Yamaha amp. The SB-1000 Pro allows to apply some peq filters to tame the room modes and adjust the phase. This might already give you decent/satisfactory results.

If I'm not mistaken, the issue is that your Yamaha amp probably can neither high-pass filter your speakers (so they run full range and are not relieved of bass duty) nor delay them (which is usually needed to properly time-align and integrate the sub). For that, you would have to put a miniDSP Flex, a WiiM streamer or a similar device that can act as an active crossover in front of the amp (or have the amp integrated into them, as in the WiiM Amp). Volume control would then have to be done at this device in front of the chain (as outlined in my conceptual sketch above).

You have to decide whether the gains of proper sub integration are worth it to you. You can also start by simply buying the SB-1000 pro, connect it via the low-level sub out for your Yamaha amp, and use the sub's peq to tame the room modes (measure with an app on your smartphone). At a later, second stage, you can still add a proper active crossover (WiiM Streamer, WiiM amp, miniDSP Flex, or similar), take measurements with a mic (UMIK-1, for instance) and REW to time- & phase-align the sub and do room correction. That's probably a worthwhile route, because it allows you to gain experience, you can keep your Yamaha Amp for now, and you don't waste any money if you want to implement the second stage later.

Enjoy and have fun!

 

[Member 90125]

I use an RSL sub (from the Ultra sub output) and the Ultra's RCA output into my Yamaha AS701 for my main speakers- sounds great to my ears! You can synch the speakers and sub with the Ultra- and set your crossover point as desired (and sub volume and phase adjustment) with the app. I have no fancy room measuring equipment- and haven't had a lot of luck dialing in the Wiim room correction (but I should play around with it a bit more). Running the sub out from the Ultra will give you a lot more adjustability than just using the Yamaha sub out that is set (at 90 or 100) and still runs full range to your mains.

Subwoofer Output Configuration on WiiM Ultra​

RCA Line Out Behavior​

When the subwoofer output is engaged on the WiiM Ultra, the RCA line out is indeed high-passed. This means that the main outputs will only carry frequencies above a certain threshold, allowing the subwoofer to handle the lower frequencies.

 

[thcdru2k]

For some of my systems I've used a calibrated mic plugged into phone to run Roomfit and limit the correction frequencies / min gain / and Q. Its worked well from WiiM mini, to Pro Plus, and to my Ultra. Its audibly better than just using built-in phone mic.

 

[Hifi for life .]

I use an RSL sub (from the Ultra sub output) and the Ultra's RCA output into my Yamaha AS701 for my main speakers- sounds great to my ears!

Sorry , do you mean the Ultra streamer or the Ultra amp ?

You can synch the speakers and sub with the Ultra- and set your crossover point as desired (and sub volume and phase adjustment) with the app.

How can you synch the speakers if they are passive and connected to the AS701.

Many use the Ultra steamer as pre amp with active speakers with sub . That’s whole other ball game …

I have no fancy room measuring equipment- and haven't had a lot of luck dialing in the Wiim room correction (but I should play around with it a bit more). Running the sub out from the Ultra will give you a lot more adjustability than just using the Yamaha sub out that is set (at 90 or 100) and still runs full range to your mains.

I do not intend on go super crazy with measuring the listing room , but my primary goal is to buy the Umik-1-use the iPhone for for more adventurous measurements.

Download and import the file file Wim recommends to app for better measurement performance.

Subwoofer Output Configuration on WiiM Ultra​

RCA Line Out Behavior​

When the subwoofer output is engaged on the WiiM Ultra, the RCA line out is indeed high-passed. This means that the main outputs will only carry frequencies above a certain threshold, allowing the subwoofer to handle the lower frequencies.

So I can high pass the speakers by using the streamer, not the Ultra amp ?

 

[Hifi for life .]

Sorry to the administrators.

I did delete my account and created new one.

I guess it doesn’t hurt being member here.

Many knowledge members.

Should the Wiim Ultra streamer indeed work well with DSP/bass management with Yamaha (because as everyone know Yamaha has very crude low pass filter .)

I guess for large towers like the Silver 500, this probably wouldn’t matter. Stand mounted speakers , most definitely.

 

[thcdru2k]

Yes the answer has already been touched on above. For speakers. WiiM Ultra to Yamaha. For subwoofer , WiiM Ultra subout to subwoofer. WiiM Ultra will apply HPF to the mains and LPF to the subs. It even has automated subwoofer/speaker sync, manual coarse delay adjustment, subwoofer gain level trim, and room correction. You see the unified HPF/LPF crossover on WiiM. Instead of Yamaha 100hz you can set it to whatever you please on WiiM Ultra.