Sub 25K active speaker/system choice

[Tangband]

If everything goes fine by the end of the year, I'll be in position to upgrade my current system.
I'm currently using Focal Solo 6, which I enjoy, and I would like to step up to something a bit outstanding.
My use case is mere music/movie enjoyment in an untreated living room of about 5.5m x 7m.
My criteria :
- full range active stereo (2.0 or 2.2)
- best possible sound quality : SOTA flatness/directivity control/distortion/younameit...
- no need for very loud (no idea about specific SPL requirement)
- listening distance is from 3m to 5m away (sofa or dining table used as desk)
- not too technical to setup (looking at you, JBL M2)
- rather an integrated system if 2.2
- good looking, however subjective that is
- max budget is 25k (new)
- buying in 2022

I narrowed it down to :
- Grimm Audio LS1v2 + subs LS1s (~24K)
PROS : Bruno Putzey's design, all reported experiences are dithyrambics, accuracy totally unscientifically confirmed by "Blind test part II" here, can be upgraded over the time to newer versions (when/if they make one)
CONS : no detailed measurements/spin, small (but growing) company
- Genelec 8351B+W371A (~24K?)
PROS : SOTA mains, nice combo with the W371A adaptative woofer and its different modes, GLM, genelec reputation, could be a start for a HT setup if willing to go there later
CONS : not so sure about that "narrow soundstage" (vs Salon2 for example) people talk about here
- The upcoming GGNTKT M3 as a challenger (and probably much cheaper), based on what existing Models do, and the measure glimpses.

Candidates ruled out : passives (Salon2 could have been the exception, but certainly a challenge to find a mint pair and have it shipped from US to my island), other actives like ATC (I like their look, but they are quite expensive and not SOTA), Geithain (don't like the bulk size/look, no detailed measurements/spinorama), Kii Three (SOTA measurements - thanks @hardisj , but don't like the look, BXT bass module expensive and ugly for me), Dutch&Dutch8C (looks very good for both SQ and esthetic, don't care about distortion, but believed by me to be inferior to the 2 top contenders), JBL M2 (too complicated setup for me), Linkwitz LX521 (complicated setup, ugly), Genelec 1237A/1238A & Neumann KH420 (expected to be inferior to the top contenders, but how certain is that ? by how much ? who knows), Genelec 8361A (ugly, inferior to 8351B+W371A).

I have a kind of crush for the LS1s, but 8351B+W371 is probably the best Genelec can offer for this use case, which says much. Although I'd want to, there is no way to listen to any of them here (Reunion Island, small french rock in the Indian Ocean).
Buying blind would be kinda crazy but I would be game, because any contenders here are, imho, f****** great.
I could have a clear preference for one or the other though, if I could listen to them.
Also, I have no idea how much better these may sound other the cheaper (and supposedly less good) alternatives.
I haven't planned on a trip to Europe soon, but if there was an opportunity of listening to a few of them altogether, would such an event be of interest to any of you (in France) ? It would probably be with buying something in mind.

The input will be an upcoming Topping EX5 through analog.
I later plan to go digital and add room correction with something like Trinnov Amethyst (or Illusonic or DEQX).

What would be your objective and subjective reasons to choose Genelec over Grimm over GGNTKT (writing that, I just realize they all start with Gs) ?
Do you have others candidates I would have forgotten ?

There is a loudspeaker that sounds better than all of your examples, and its the Linn Akudorik exakt, - its a dsp active 4-way standmount speaker that you really have to listen to, to understand how good it sounds. Yes - this speaker sound better than all of the loudspeakers you mentioned, atleast in my opinion.

 

[lherrm]

There is a loudspeaker that sounds better than all of your examples, and its the Linn Akudorik exakt, - its a dsp active 4-way standmount speaker that you really have to listen to, to understand how good it sounds. Yes - this speaker sound better than all of the loudspeakers you mentioned, atleast in my opinion.View attachment 182302

That's quite a statement.
Can you provide informations on why this could be better than the others ?
Have you done a comparative listening ? Are there any measurements somewhere ?

 

[Tangband]

That's quite a statement.
Can you provide informations on why this could be better than the others ?
Have you done a comparative listening ? Are there any measurements somewhere ?

1. Yes it is

2. It sounds better with music, in my opinion.

3. Yes , latest with the Genelec 8030c and with 8340 ( in a different room ) . The comparison was not fun for me , I own the 8340 thats really good sounding compared to most loudspeakers. Ofcource its a big price difference.

4. Yes - I have made measurements on Akudorik exakt with the Line audio om1. It measures very well, but not quite as flat as my 8340 . But the sound is better with music, probably because of reduced IM distortion being a 4-way active loudspeaker. Every true hifi-enthusiast should try listen to the Akudorik exakt.

 

[CMB]

I would order 8351B instead of 8361A then (I think the first in horizontal position on top of the W371A looks perfect).
Yeah, it would probably be a smart move.
But I would like to go to another planet compared to what I already have.
Not sure the main could do that without the sub.

I totally understand that for the look and the pairing with W371.

The 8361 reaches deeper than the 8351b.
On paper down to 30 Hz. In reality slightly lower, but not much. That is the reason I choose them against 8351b. Also, I was not sure to hear the difference in measures between both. I think the 8361 does pretty well too.

For me, I wouldn’t add necessarily a sub for music.
For me, the 8361 is totally sufficient.

The W371 reaches down to 23 Hz on paper. Ok, that is 7Hz deeper for 20K…

With GLM I could manage my in room bass problem (+20 dB at 47Hz). I still have a small deep at 103 Hz. Which got better by moving the speakers against the wall (which seems to be the same in your place).

Looking at your room and reflecting at your « home » use, I wonder what this additional costs for W371 really brings in that environment. Also I never heard them myself.

Certainly, the feeling to have the best money can buy contributes to the listening experience too.

 

[lherrm]

1. Yes it is

2. It sounds better with music, in my opinion.

3. Yes , latest with the Genelec 8030c and with 8340 ( in a different room ) . The comparison was not fun for me , I own the 8340 thats really good sounding compared to most loudspeakers. Ofcource its a big price difference.

4. Yes - I have made measurements on Akudorik exakt with the Line audio om1. It measures very well, but not quite as flat as my 8340 . But the sound is better with music, probably because of reduced IM distortion being a 4-way active loudspeaker. Every enthusiast should try listen to the Akudorik exakt.

I fail to see how the comparison you made translates to the systems I mentioned.
Only going by FR :
8340 is a 2-way with ± 1.5 dB (45 Hz - 20 kHz).
W371A+8351B is a ~5-way with something like ± 1.5 dB 20 Hz - 20 kHz.
Don't know the numbers for Grimm and the others but it should be close too.

 

[lherrm]

I totally understand that for the look and the pairing with W371.

The 8361 reaches deeper than the 8351b.
On paper down to 30 Hz. In reality slightly lower, but not much. That is the reason I choose them against 8351b. Also, I was not sure to hear the difference in measures between both. I think the 8361 does pretty well too.

For me, I wouldn’t add necessarily a sub for music.
For me, the 8361 is totally sufficient.

The W371 reaches down to 23 Hz on paper. Ok, that is 7Hz deeper for 20K…

With GLM I could manage my in room bass problem (+20 dB at 47Hz). I still have a small deep at 103 Hz. Which got better by moving the speakers against the wall (which seems to be the same in your place).

Looking at your room and reflecting at your « home » use, I wonder what this additional costs for W371 really brings in that environment. Also I never heard them myself.

Certainly, the feeling to have the best money can buy contributes to the listening experience too.

In short : 8361A would probably be enough for me, even bass wise, but it's not for me look-wise (it looks better in white, just too big for me).
8351B would be bass shy, thus the combo with W371A which should provide the best integrated and room friendly bass.

 

[Tangband]

I totally understand that for the look and the pairing with W371.

The 8361 reaches deeper than the 8351b.
On paper down to 30 Hz. In reality slightly lower, but not much. That is the reason I choose them against 8351b. Also, I was not sure to hear the difference in measures between both. I think the 8361 does pretty well too.

For me, I wouldn’t add necessarily a sub for music.
For me, the 8361 is totally sufficient.

The W371 reaches down to 23 Hz on paper. Ok, that is 7Hz deeper for 20K…

With GLM I could manage my in room bass problem (+20 dB at 47Hz). I still have a small deep at 103 Hz. Which got better by moving the speakers against the wall (which seems to be the same in your place).

Looking at your room and reflecting at your « home » use, I wonder what this additional costs for W371 really brings in that environment. Also I never heard them myself.

Certainly, the feeling to have the best money can buy contributes to the listening experience too.

Integrating subwoofers can be a real pain to get good, so my voting is also for 8361 if you pay that sort of money.

 

[Tangband]

I fail to see how the comparison you made translates to the systems I mentioned.
Only going by FR :
8340 is a 2-way with ± 1.5 dB (45 Hz - 20 kHz).
W371A+8351B is a ~5-way with something like ± 1.5 dB 20 Hz - 20 kHz.
Don't know the numbers for Grimm and the others but it should be close too.

That makes sence. You have to listen for yourself I think. Without listening, my statement should be wortheless.

 

[lherrm]

Integrating subwoofers can be a real pain to get good, so my voting is also for 8361 if you pay that sort of money.

GLM is the USP here.

 

[CMB]

In short : 8361A would probably be enough for me, even bass wise, but it's not for me look-wise (it looks better in white, just too big for me).
8351B would be bass shy, thus the combo with W371A which should provide the best integrated and room friendly bass.

I really don't want to convince you; maybe just helping to confort you with your current choice.
At this price level every one should make up its own mind .

But, when you say that 8361 are too big, W371+8351b we are talking 1,40m high and 45cm in large (not really discret either).

I shared your opinion on the esthetics of the 8361 when I saw them in grey (impossible).
In white, however I really love them. But it also depends on your furniture/decoration/taste.
My living room is rather modern decorated.

Looking forward to you adventure here.

 

[YSC]

Really ? I have 2 GLM sets to sell then, lol.
That's right :
View attachment 182301
I'll return the one I just got.

well you can always sell one 2nd hand in original box

 

[YSC]

Integrating subwoofers can be a real pain to get good, so my voting is also for 8361 if you pay that sort of money.

from my own experience using the 7040A in the middle position and same distance from my 8030C it's a pretty pain free experience to me, no phase issue at all since they are placed almost as a 3 way with woofer near ground and mids and highs closer to ear level. when you are placing a few subs at not the same direction as the main speakers to counter all room modes then it would require a lot extra effort. but in the case the single 4 way speaker won't behave any better as a satellite speaker placing almost on top of the sub anyway since the placement dictated that the room mode bass nulls will always present.

now for the 8351+W371A it's almost for sure the 8351 will be placed on top of the W371, so I can't see any chance of bass phase issues, not to say when using this GLM would let you counter the bass room modes plus phase alignment in a click.

I would not dare say it will be the absloute best system one can buy, but definitely one of the best out there. and can't see why it would be difficult to integrate a GLM aided speaker anyway. (unless you are saying it's F__king heavy to move around).

P.S. the Linn Akudorik exakt in the picture in deed looked amazing, more for a lifestyle/taste piece in any home

 

[LTig]

Yes - I have made measurements on Akudorik exakt with the Line audio om1. It measures very well, but not quite as flat as my 8340 . But the sound is better with music, probably because of reduced IM distortion being a 4-way active loudspeaker. Every true hifi-enthusiast should try listen to the Akudorik exakt.

The comparison is quite unfair since the 8340 is (Edit: not) smaller than the Akudorik, and it's a 2 way with higher IMD as you correctly noted.

A 8351 with W371 or a 8361 are quite different beasts and I think both are able to play louder than the comparatively small Akudorik with even lower IMD.

Edit: just read in a review at whathifi that the Akudorik has a 6.5" woofer so in fact not bigger than the 8340s woofer (my bad). But then it has no chance at all against the bigger Ones.

 

[onion]

W371 + 8351 would be endgame for me. W371 has a constant directivity mode that should work really well with Bacch4Mac

 

[RobL]

€27000 = CAD$38000
Wow, this system better make you breakfast and drive you to work.

 

[lherrm]

€27000 = CAD$38000
Wow, this system better make you breakfast and drive you to work.

I think it should even do the work
Unfortunately, just like the majority of audio systems out there, it will only move a part of itself back and forth a few times per second.
Lazy stuff.

 

[lherrm]

I really don't want to convince you; maybe just helping to confort you with your current choice.
At this price level every one should make up its own mind .

But, when you say that 8361 are too big, W371+8351b we are talking 1,40m high and 45cm in large (not really discret either).

I shared your opinion on the esthetics of the 8361 when I saw them in grey (impossible).
In white, however I really love them. But it also depends on your furniture/decoration/taste.
My living room is rather modern decorated.

Looking forward to you adventure here.

I mean too big (fat?) as a single speaker. At least in pictures, maybe it wouldn't be the same in real life.
The combo is indeed bigger, but the footprint (40cm x 40cm) remains small-ish (considering the 14" woofer & compared to comparable floorstanding speakers).

 

[YSC]

side question, what did you do to your old Focal Solo 6? they are a pair of sexy speaker at their own which I eyed for a long time but the cost and performance restricted me from materializing them and bought the genelecs instead

 

[lherrm]

side question, what did you do to your old Focal Solo 6? they are a pair of sexy speaker at their own which I eyed for a long time but the cost and performance restricted me from materializing them and bought the genelecs instead

Keeping them to compare with Genelec and realize how different they are.
I will probably move them to another room after.
They are sexy and sound very well (to my ears) indeed.

 

[parubets]

I'm very interested in LX521 as well, and yes, linkwitz.store sells almost done setups. It's really the look of the "head" (which is purposely designed like that, I know) that makes it difficult to project it in my living room. If I could find a way around it, I might want to try this later. So you've had kii three and lx521 and kept the linkwitz. What made you take this decision ?
As for genelec look, it's really personal indeed. I love the W371A + 8351B combo.

I guess it's to late to tell you about lx521.4? Have you ordered Genelec already?