Studio Monitor Upgrade | Thoughts?

[Ktacos]

Additionally with the 8340 it might be possible, budget wise, to also add the 7360 sub. Does this seem like the best bet?

Tough choice, if you want GLM in the monitors, you'll probably want it in the subs, but genelecs subs are such a poor value. $2500 for a single 10"? That's just bonkers, you could fill your room with 4 subs and a hardware dsp solution and still have money left over for all sorts of things. Even four little 10" budget subs placed around the room would eat the genelec alive in terms of bass performance. I really don't how they came up with pricing for their subs, it makes no sense to me.

 

[chopin_guy88]

Tough choice, if you want GLM in the monitors, you'll probably want it in the subs, but genelecs subs are such a poor value. $2500 for a single 10"? That's just bonkers, you could fill your room with 4 subs and a hardware dsp solution and still have money left over for all sorts of things. Even four little 10" budget subs placed around the room would eat the genelec alive in terms of bass performance. I really don't how they came up with pricing for their subs, it makes no sense to me.

Believe me - I feel that 100% - the 7370 at nearly $4k is kind of bonkers to me also (to get a 12"). I get the value proposition as I have custom DIY 18" 460HO sealed subs with miniDSP in my media room - that's also a lot of work to execute and get right. So, at the same time, I also value the simplicity and accuracy that the GLM integration would provide.

 

[Ktacos]

Stuff just working together is definitely worth money, in my studio the last thing I want to think about is the speakers and I've paid a little extra to get that.

 

[chopin_guy88]

Either that and I through caution to the wind and just go with some like the 8351 or 8361 and be done...

 

[5150]

Thank you - I am aware of that - but they don't have any solution with balance audio i/o. So that's a no go for me.

Bump to the question in my post above - above as that's the pertinent one at this point.

Minidsp does offer balanced IO with TRS jacks.. available on the Flex, at least. Toslink from one system, spdif from the other, then four balanced outs with monitor control.

Dirac base latency on my system is just over 4ms plus delay correction on my filters ~23ms but since I am doing Dirac in software and am not forcing all output through it, I can monitor in real time with no latency

Why are you not considering Neumann? They have the edge on Genelec now as all their two way designs up and down the stack are a half decade newer. More extension, more output, less distortion. They also have their own DSP system.

If you have to do Genelec 8340 over 8050/8350. 8 inch driver is just so big for a 2 way and the 8350 is ludicrously expensive... So it costs much more than a KH150, has a much much larger cabinet, and is ugly as sin for only a semitone more low end extension... In my country a 8350 actually costs more than a KH310

 

[chopin_guy88]

Minidsp does offer balanced IO with TRS jacks.. available on the Flex, at least. Toslink from one system, spdif from the other, then four balanced outs with monitor control.

Dirac base latency on my system is just over 4ms plus delay correction on my filters ~23ms but since I am doing Dirac in software and am not forcing all output through it, I can monitor in real time with no latency

Why are you not considering Neumann? They have the edge on Genelec now as all their two way designs up and down the stack are a half decade newer. More extension, more output, less distortion. They also have their own DSP system.

If you have to do Genelec 8340 over 8050/8350. 8 inch driver is just so big for a 2 way and the 8350 is ludicrously expensive... So it costs much more than a KH150, has a much much larger cabinet, and is ugly as sin for only a semitone more low end extension... In my country a 8350 actually costs more than a KH310

Guess I should have specified XLR - as that's what I have coming out of Eversolo dac. Like I said in my post above - in this instance I do value the ease of use with GLM.

I had looked at Neumann - I do like the KH310, but those don't have DSP. At which point I'd be back to looking at the ARC Studio or the like.

 

[5150]

Guess I should have specified XLR - as that's what I have coming out of Eversolo dac. Like I said in my post above - in this instance I do value the ease of use with GLM.

I had looked at Neumann - I do like the KH310, but those don't have DSP. At which point I'd be back to looking at the ARC Studio or the like.

XLR to TRS is no trouble at all, it's just two different style ends.

I gotta say my brief experience with ARC was horribly unpleasant. Bloated, laggy software which is a deal breaker all on its own. The measurement process was extremely time consuming demanding 21 measurements. Then the end result wasnt as good as Dirac. It is nice they offer their own hardware unit, but it's thd+n performance is on par with low end interfaces or RME gear dating back to the mid 2000s. So I would recommend anything but ARC.

The KH 150 also performs so well there may not be much point to go with KH 310, especially at this time, because it seems all but certain a KH 310 II with built in DSP and even better performance will be getting announced this year

 

[chopin_guy88]

Man - now that I look at the KH150 that sure seems like a compelling option as well. The review here is very favorable for it.

Not to mention adding the KH750 sub is like $800 less then the Genelec equivalent.

 

[chopin_guy88]

Well it's decision time - gotta pull the trigger. These are the current options:

Genelec 8340a $3390/pair
8000-400 $530
GLM $263
$4183

Genelec 8350 (open box) $3970/pair
8000-400 $530
GLM $263
$4763

Neumann KH310 $4790/pair
ADJ1 $1100
$5890

Which one??

 

[chopin_guy88]

Well I decided to go with the Genelec 8350s. Having the easily integrated DSP function of GLM really seemed the best solution. I’ll spend some time getting acquainted with them and dialed in - can always add a subwoofer down the road if I feel it’s necessary. Will definitely share some photos and thoughts once I’m able.

 

[chopin_guy88]

Follow up report - a little delayed in getting the new monitors setup as one of the stands arrived damaged, but Sweetwater was quick to get it replaced despite the backorder on them. Needless to say I am floored!! This is an entirely different level of monitoring from the Focals before. Granted one of these monitors does cost more than the Alpha Twin pair and Sub One all together. Nonetheless, the image, separation, soundstage - it's the best I've had the chance to own. One very happy camper here!!

 

[jdg78]

Gorgeous setup - is that a Kawai VPC-1?

Glad you are happy with the new system. Although not a professional musician myself (though a committed amateur), I also recently got a pair of Genelecs along with a sub for my main setup, and couldn't be happier.

Paired with a quality digital piano controller (mine is a Studiologic Numa-X GT) and a top-of-the-line piano emulator like the VSL Synchron series, it's absolutely fantastic for both live playing and editing, and also just listening to music.

 

[chopin_guy88]

Gorgeous setup - is that a Kawai VPC-1?

Glad you are happy with the new system. Although not a professional musician myself (though a committed amateur), I also recently got a pair of Genelecs along with a sub for my main setup, and couldn't be happier.

Paired with a quality digital piano controller (mine is a Studiologic Numa-X GT) and a top-of-the-line piano emulator like the VSL Synchron series, it's absolutely fantastic for both live playing and editing, and also just listening to music.

Thanks so much. It is a VPC-1 - really enjoy it (though totally a piano centric controller). I use it with Ivory III (actually considered going with Synchron too, but have always been an Ivory user). When I'm doing symphonic stuff I do have to pull out a smaller controller with actual encoders for Midi CC channels - looking into a desktop solution for that too.

So far I can't seem to find the need for a sub with the 8350s. Maybe down the road I'll add one, but the recommended model for these starts with the 7370 which is $4k...lol. So I'll hold off for now.

 

[5150]

Thanks so much. It is a VPC-1 - really enjoy it (though totally a piano centric controller). I use it with Ivory III (actually considered going with Synchron too, but have always been an Ivory user). When I'm doing symphonic stuff I do have to pull out a smaller controller with actual encoders for Midi CC channels - looking into a desktop solution for that too.

So far I can't seem to find the need for a sub with the 8350s. Maybe down the road I'll add one, but the recommended model for these starts with the 7370 which is $4k...lol. So I'll hold off for now.

What are you using for the smaller midi controller? I've got a cheap m-audio 49 key and an Akai mini for when I want something really small but the keys always feel horrible.. even for a synth guy like me.

 

[chopin_guy88]

What are you using for the smaller midi controller? I've got a cheap m-audio 49 key and an Akai mini for when I want something really small but the keys always feel horrible.. even for a synth guy like me.

For that I use an Akai MPK261, but yes - the keybed is garbage. Hence why I want a desktop controller to use for Midi CC channels so I don't have to drag that out everytime I do something that requires more controlled past what the VPC1 allows (essentially everything but piano...lol).

 

[jdg78]

It is a VPC-1 - really enjoy it (though totally a piano centric controller). I use it with Ivory III (actually considered going with Synchron too, but have always been an Ivory user).

Nice. I also have Ivory III, and in certain respects (resonance modeling, pedal behavior, continuous velocity) it's even more advanced than the Synchron piano engine, however I find that the modeling also introduces some slightly synthetic artifacts to the tone, whereas the Synchron pianos tend to sound a bit more true-to-life - at least to my ears.

Hard to go wrong either way, though - they are both at the very top of the heap when it comes to piano software.

 

[chopin_guy88]

Nice. I also have Ivory III, and in certain respects (resonance modeling, pedal behavior, continuous velocity) it's even more advanced than the Synchron piano engine, however I find that the modeling also introduces some slightly synthetic artifacts to the tone, whereas the Synchron pianos tend to sound a bit more true-to-life - at least to my ears.

Hard to go wrong either way, though - they are both at the very top of the heap when it comes to piano software.

Agree on these points, but I also wanted a leaner library to host on my system drive (mac studio). Those Synchron pianos get huge - so that was a factor too. Thankfully I have that setup and a very nice new K800 upright - plus a Shigeru SK7 at the church where I'm music director - definitely spoiled in that regard.

 

[honjr]

Glad you're happy now! I compose and use Pianoteq - I think you'd find that, with its endless "tweakability" you can get any sound you want and also some great new sounds, effects, and extensions of traditional sounds you never thought of. Excellent support, extremely low latency, even tone/timbre across the board. I use the Yamaha CP5 keyboard - built like a tank, never had any problems with it.

For monitors, well, I've never tried Genelecs, but based on experience with other good monitors - Geithain, Quested, ATC, Neumann - I'm certain that you have found a great combination.

To limit desk reflections, I raise my monitors up a little bit and pull them in a bit closer. Never had any problem.

Further, for composing/improvising/playing I do not think that perfect speaker linearity must be the primary goal. The human ear and brain are far more complex than any near-field scanner so as long as the sound inspires you and does not inhibit you, you're good to go!

Have fun.

 

[songOVERsound]

I can recommend Ex Machina’s for studio work

 

[DSJR]

Interesting but may be valid. No idea how I got there, but I came across pics for Benny (ex Abba) studio -

RMV Studio, Stockholm

Sweden’s newest high-end studio is built on very strong foundations, both literally and metaphorically.

www.soundonsound.com

The large mains seem to be ATC 300As but I was intrigued by the smaller monitors on top of the meter bridge (NS10s in situ of course) and found they were TAD models. Looking up the studio today, seems to indicate the desk-situated monitors have been replaced by two way Genelecs on their sides -

RMV Studio

rmvstudio.se

Genelecs do seem to feature in many of the editing suite pics I've seen recently, but they're beginning to filter into some desktop studio situations too - no idea if a sub system is in use too I'm afraid...