Studio Monitor Upgrade | Thoughts?

[chopin_guy88]

New member but have long appreciated the information and discussion here. Looking for some thoughts & insight.

I recently purchased the Focal Alpha Twin Evo monitors, and have not been totally happy with them. Even added in the Sub One subwoofer, but properly integrating a sub adds a whole other layer of complexity.

I'm considering selling off the Evo package to upgrade to something 'higher on the food chain'. Was looking at Focal (Trio6), Genelec (8050b), and Adam (S3V).

Think I'm drawn towards a three way - as I'd like to not run a subwoofer if at all possible. Context, I'm a professional musician (masters in piano), use would be general listening and recording/mixing I do in this space (largely piano and orchestral VST). I've included a couple photos of the room/setup (14'x12' with 10' ceilings).

Appreciate any thoughts and insight.

 

[staticV3]

Here's a list of active monitors sorted by bass extension (F3):

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

The Twin Evo is already pretty high up the food chain.

Definitely the most bass per dollar

 

[staticV3]

Also, welcome to ASR!

 

[chopin_guy88]

Here's a list of active monitors sorted by bass extension (F3):

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

www.spinorama.org

The Twin Evo is already pretty high up the food chain.

Definitely the most bass per dollar

Thank you - bass extension wasn't necessarily the issue (the sub one definitely rounded out the bottom). Additionally, likely have room interaction - so my plan is to add something like the IK ARC Studio to gain some room tuning.

I'm not sure if it's the MTM horizontal alignment I'm not liking or what?? I chose the Focal Twins as I previously had Alpha 50 (original Alpha line) nearfield on my desk, and liked those there (also had the IK iLoud MTMs which were nice nearfield as well).

Obviously all these monitors I'm looking at now are in totally different product class than the Twins - where one speaker costs as much or more than this entire Alpha package.

 

[Ktacos]

These speakers make no sense to me, it's like they started to make a 3 way, but couldn't quite get it right for the price point or something, and just said screw it take the mid range out. Dispersion is not at all ideal with this arrangement.

A pair of 8030's and sub (two is better) are gonna be much better than the focals here. I don't really consider a speaker that can't get dispersion right a monitor, this is 2024 not much an excuses to get it wrong anymore, and we have a pretty good idea of how important it is.

Is your sub in the middle of the room? I can't say I've had good results with that but a measurement mic will tell you whether things are in the right place. If you're not running corrective EQ then you really need to be, especially with a setup that has a desk in front of it.

 

[staticV3]

Here are the Twin Evo's directivity plots:

 

[chopin_guy88]

These speakers make no sense to me, it's like they started to make a 3 way, but couldn't quite get it right for the price point or something, and just said screw it take the mid range out. Dispersion is not at all ideal with this arrangement.

A pair of 8030's and sub (two is better) are gonna be much better than the focals here. I don't really consider a speaker that can't get dispersion right a monitor, this is 2024 not much an excuses to get it wrong anymore, and we have a pretty good idea of how important it is.

Is your sub in the middle of the room? I can't say I've had good results with that but a measurement mic will tell you whether things are in the right place. If you're not running corrective EQ then you really need to be, especially with a setup that has a desk in front of it.

I appreciate it, Ktacos. My guess is this is part of what my ears are telling me about these.

I do have the sub middle under the desk, but could easily place a new unit in the corner.

One option I was considering was - 8050b with a SVS SB16 or SB4000 (both those SVS models have XLR inputs w/pass through on the amp). Along with the ARC Studio for room correction. Otherwise, all the Genelec GLM stuff just gets too expensive for me to justify.

Another option, if still considering a sub, would be the Focal Solo 6 monitors with the big Sub12. Again, along with the ARC Studio.

I thinking of simplicity with a more capable full-range three way monitor without a sub. Though they're certainly on the more expensive end of options.

 

[Multicore]

Would the 8" Kali have enough bass extension for you?

I tried using a sub in a similar arrangement to the one in your picture and, despite using REW and a UMIK-1, I hated it. The effect was of different notes coming from different directions and when you're playing an instrument that's nonsense. So I got rid of it and I make do with the limited bass. I'm a guitarist so the sub bass isn't so important as it is for piano. I also use a synth with a patch that drops down two octaves but then I can use headphones.

Subs are tricky.

A wildcard idea but ... what about something like Yamaha DZR12? I rather fancy that. They have so much SPL that for home studio use you could EQ them to extend the bass. The problem here is they are far field speakers. They'd be ideal for performance, though.

 

[staticV3]

A wildcard idea but ... what about something like Yamaha DZR12? I rather fancy that. They have so much SPL that for home studio use you could EQ them to extend the bass. The problem here is they are far field speakers. They'd be ideal for performance, though.

Probably copious amounts of self-noise (hiss) coming from those in a near field, domestic environment.

 

[Multicore]

Probably copious amounts of self-noise (hiss) coming from those in a near field, domestic environment.

Yeah, could be.

 

[Multicore]

New member but have long appreciated the information and discussion here. Looking for some thoughts & insight.

I recently purchased the Focal Alpha Twin Evo monitors, and have not been totally happy with them. Even added in the Sub One subwoofer, but properly integrating a sub adds a whole other layer of complexity.

I'm considering selling off the Evo package to upgrade to something 'higher on the food chain'. Was looking at Focal (Trio6), Genelec (8050b), and Adam (S3V).

Think I'm drawn towards a three way - as I'd like to not run a subwoofer if at all possible. Context, I'm a professional musician (masters in piano), use would be general listening and recording/mixing I do in this space (largely piano and orchestral VST). I've included a couple photos of the room/setup (14'x12' with 10' ceilings).

View attachment 382958
View attachment 382959

Appreciate any thoughts and insight.

btw, @chopin_guy88 , can you come around this weekend and help me tidy my music room and desk?

/me ashamed

 

[staticV3]

btw, @chopin_guy88 , can you come around this weekend and help me tidy my music room and desk?

/me ashamed

The GGNTKT M1 would look beautiful in there, plus it's cardioid so would mitigate bass peaks somewhat.

But probably too expensive.

 

[chopin_guy88]

btw, @chopin_guy88 , can you come around this weekend and help me tidy my music room and desk?

/me ashamed

Haha - I poured so much time into cable management and making this clean. Almost pains me to think about getting new monitors and all setup in there...lol

 

[chopin_guy88]

Would the 8" Kali have enough bass extension for you?

I tried using a sub in a similar arrangement to the one in your picture and, despite using REW and a UMIK-1, I hated it. The effect was of different notes coming from different directions and when you're playing an instrument that's nonsense. So I got rid of it and I make do with the limited bass. I'm a guitarist so the sub bass isn't so important as it is for piano. I also use a synth with a patch that drops down two octaves but then I can use headphones.

Subs are tricky.

A wildcard idea but ... what about something like Yamaha DZR12? I rather fancy that. They have so much SPL that for home studio use you could EQ them to extend the bass. The problem here is they are far field speakers. They'd be ideal for performance, though.

Appreciate the thoughts. I really waffle back and forth between larger monitors vs. the 2way w/sub combo.

Practically, if I went with something like the Focal Trio 6 which can be put on it's side - I could reuse these current Argosy stands (plus they have to top IsoAcoustic mount). As the mid/tweeter in that cabinet can be rotated for side placement.

Otherwise, I'm also looking at having to get something like Soundanchors ($1,300) or the Genelec custom stands ($625).

 

[Multicore]

Otherwise, I'm also looking at having to get something like Soundanchors ($1,300) or the Genelec custom stands ($625).

Or a bigger desktop. I have a desk with adjustable height so having the speakers go up and down with everything else is preferable.

Helps to practice your Little Richard moves?

I'd show you a picture but I'm embarrassed by the mess.

 

[Ktacos]

I appreciate it, Ktacos. My guess is this is part of what my ears are telling me about these.

I do have the sub middle under the desk, but could easily place a new unit in the corner.

One option I was considering was - 8050b with a SVS SB16 or SB4000 (both those SVS models have XLR inputs w/pass through on the amp). Along with the ARC Studio for room correction. Otherwise, all the Genelec GLM stuff just gets too expensive for me to justify.

Another option, if still considering a sub, would be the Focal Solo 6 monitors with the big Sub12. Again, along with the ARC Studio.

I thinking of simplicity with a more capable full-range three way monitor without a sub. Though they're certainly on the more expensive end of options.

Idk if I'd look at focal at all, most of their speakers are just not competitive with stuff from genelec or nuemann, and that's coming from a musician and "audio engineer" (whatever people call it anymore, you have to basically be able to do everything these days) with plenty of years of experience mixing in both live and studio environments. In the studio I have owned all three brands in my own space and was able to understand their sound intimately. If you want to upgrade, you have to get something that doesn't have the problems your current speakers have which you probably aren't going to find with Focal. Their 3 ways are probably nice but don't consider that a "simpler" setup in terms of the sound you'll get. The larger woofer is still victim to the positional room interactions, which is why it's so important to be able to move your bass radiating speakers to the best spot which is basically never where the mid and treble are coming from.

EQ correction can be done anywhere, for non-daw applications I just load up my REQ generated filters in EQ APO, they're loaded into a config so I can turn it all off and back on with one click. For DAW work I just have the same filters running in a master bus EQ that I turn off before rendering. Not particularly difficult to generate your own corrections, and much cheaper and flexible to do so. Not locked to any hardware or software.

Mixing and matching subs with speaker brands is fine, really anything with xlr in and out with a hipass on the out is fine. I would highly advise two subs though if you can swing it, just way better bass integration in the room with two. Small rooms have very high orders of modal interactions in the bass so you really need as many bass radiators as you practically get or else it's null city.

 

[Penelinfi]

Potentially could add something on desk to reduce reflections? Also maybe the rear wall. Could do a removable something or other on the piano face above keys? If that's even a relevant source of reflections , otherwise on the wall around it (maybe diffusion) as of course any room treatments will also affect the sound of the piano

 

[Ktacos]

Potentially could add something on desk to reduce reflections? Also maybe the rear wall. Could do a removable something or other on the piano face above keys? If that's even a relevant source of reflections , otherwise on the wall around it (maybe diffusion) as of course any room treatments will also affect the sound of the piano

Short of building a desktop with a porous material or removing the desk entirely, there's not much one can do. You can tilt the desk which can help some now you've got an angled top which can be hell on wrists and stuff can slide off.

 

[Penelinfi]

Short of building a desktop with a porous material or removing the desk entirely, there's not much one can do. You can tilt the desk which can help some now you've got an angled top which can be hell on wrists and stuff can slide off.

There's not much in the speaker-ear reflection path, absorbers or angles can be added. You can add a lip to angled L/R surface if using.

 

[Ktacos]

There's not much in the speaker-ear reflection path, absorbers or angles can be added. You can add a lip to angled L/R surface if using.

There is a desk there, desks present huge reflection issues, and issues are generally fairly consistent to the point that most monitors have very similar dip switch settings to help alleviate them.

Two totally different speakers, ones a genelec 8030c. Anyone with a desk setup who has measured is probably very familiar with the huge peak you get around 150hz. Try placing an absorber on the desk thick enough to catch that wave and still use the desk lol. Both speakers exhibit basically the same reflection issues from the desk, because you are after all effectively placing a boundary in front of them.

Here's my ole kh80's on another desk, not only do you get a bunch of reflections in the midbass, you also generally get them through the whole spectrum. You can see the "comb filtering" that happens from the desk here. It really trashes the stereo image.

Desks just suck for sound ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This video demonstrates what desks do and some things you can do to try and fix it, but ultimately the desk is going to hurt things, but where else are you going to put your mouse and keyboard?