Struggling with room treatment placement and possible problems.

[No_hair_left]

After god knows how long I have been looking at room treatment options and am still stuck on where to even start. My rt60 graphs seem to be low in the higher frequencies with no room treatment but much higher under 400hz, would it be safe to assume I would need significant treatment to even make a difference? I was thinking of keeping it simple and adding 2 of these binary wood diffusers (https://addictivesound.com/binary-diffuser-wood/) at the 2 left and right reflection points as my impulse shows -10db peaks here and adding a 4 inch absorption panel on the back wall to kill the reflections there.


Someone said however that my room will sound too dead given that the higher frequencies are already low.

My room is 10.5ft wide and 14ft long not including the open kitchen. Red tape is where the speakers show for the front 3 and the tape next to the sofa is for the side right speaker as it shows and big reflection in the impulse. Back wall I was thinking just absorption as its too small for anything else. Mlp is 7ft to center speaker and 6.5 ft to the back wall.

 

[Mort]

So those are non-standard graphs for folks here to evaluate. Do you have REW and a measurement microphone? There are guides here on how to do that. It might help you get a better answer although room treatment is usually pretty far down the priority list when tuning a system.

 

[No_hair_left]

So those are non-standard graphs for folks here to evaluate. Do you have REW and a measurement microphone? There are guides here on how to do that. It might help you get a better answer although room treatment is usually pretty far down the priority list when tuning a system.

I have a mic and rew, room treatment is the only thing I have left to do to be honest, nothing left to buy until dirac goes on sale again and I figured I might be able to gain some improvement with some basic room treatment by knocking the first reflection spl down. I quite like the spacious sound of the side walls though seeing as my room is a bit narrow so maybe diffusion at the first reflection points.

 

[Mort]

You could take measurements and upload the MDAT file (make sure it's zipped first.)

It's really impossible to tell if room treatment would help from the info we have.

 

[No_hair_left]

Didnt realise I could do that, here is the zip if I have done it right, measurements taken at 60db if that makes any difference

Base layer speakers at 60db.zip

 

[DVDdoug]

400Hz has a wavelength of about 34 inches so "regular" acoustic treatment or diffusers won't help much.

 

[tineared]

The first thing I would suggest is to move your mains off of the wall so they are not behind your TV screen. Lots of diffraction there...

 

[No_hair_left]

The first thing I would suggest is to move your mains off of the wall so they are not behind your TV screen. Lots of diffraction there...

They are in front, tv is 6 inches off the wall the speakers are on wall mounts that put them 8 inches off the wall, the angle makes it look like they are behind.

 

[No_hair_left]

Any input?

If from 400hz to 10k all my base layer speakers are between 400 sloping down to 200ms could I add anything? if 400hz and anything under that requires significant treatment then I can't do that so I wonder if even just treating the first refection points would be worse in my situation.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I don't have REW access at the moment, but hings come to mind.

The crossover region seems off, and given 2 subs you will want to look into that. What are your settings for crossover?

Are those subs ported or sealed? Because if they are ported you are firing bass right at the TV/Stand, which is likely not a good idea.

What are the subs? How low are they rated to go? Because that 20-30 issue might be from trying to drive a sub too low.

I would try the subs pointed out at an angle myself, as a first guess. But it is only a guess.

 

[Flaesh]

Base layer speakers at 60db.zip

Above 1kHz it's pretty good. And the subwoofer measures well too.
But the 100-1000 Hz range leaves something to be desired.

100mm BAD is better than 50mm foam, of coarse. I don't know exactly how much a few panels will help.

 

[No_hair_left]

I don't have REW access at the moment, but hings come to mind.

The crossover region seems off, and given 2 subs you will want to look into that. What are your settings for crossover?

Are those subs ported or sealed? Because if they are ported you are firing bass right at the TV/Stand, which is likely not a good idea.

What are the subs? How low are they rated to go? Because that 20-30 issue might be from trying to drive a sub too low.

I would try the subs pointed out at an angle myself, as a first guess. But it is only a guess.

I took the speaker measurements without the subs that's why it probably looks off, my speaker crossovers are currently set to 90hz. The subs are svs sb 1000 pro's and sealed, they are rated down the 20hz, they are positioned like that as I tried every combination I could think off across the front and them firing at the walls provided the best response by a long shot, I have a rising 20-30hz that xt32 has to pull down so I feel like maybe not much can be done for them.

 

[Defi]

400Hz has a wavelength of about 34 inches so "regular" acoustic treatment or diffusers won't help much.

I'm not sure if GIK counts as "regular" but even their smallest 2" panels here:

Edit: I realize the context might have been misunderstood by me. I understand OP is looking for "under 400Hz." So my point is not necessarily worthwhile. That being said, their bigger panels do get down quite low.

 

[No_hair_left]

Above 1kHz it's pretty good. And the subwoofer measures well too.
But the 100-1000 Hz range leaves something to be desired.
View attachment 507611
100mm BAD is better than 50mm foam, of coarse. I don't know exactly how much a few panels will help.

Would adding panels anywhere in the room improve under 1000hz or does it have to be where the speaker is hitting? for example I could add some bigger 4-5 inch thick panels on my front wall and rear wall but if the speaker reflection is not hitting it I suppose it wont do anything? Im pretty limited on the side walls and could probably only do some 3 inch panels.

 

[No_hair_left]

I'm not sure if GIK counts as "regular" but even their smallest 2" panels here:

View attachment 507615

Edit: I realize the context might have been misunderstood by me. I understand OP is looking for "under 400Hz." So my point is not necessarily worthwhile. That being said, their bigger panels do get down quite low.

Seems like under 1000 could be beneficial so if these work till 400 I can probably get some use out of them.

 

[Defi]

You should check out their other offerings. They post actual test data for all of their products, and if you can stomach the cost and size they have panels that have meaningful absorption down to the frequencies where you would either start using subs to address, or if your speakers roll off would not be as problematic. 5.5" - 9.5" panels here:

These are still broadband absorbers. They of course have tuned membranes if you have some specific lower frequency to target. I think at that point that is for people who are adamant about 2.0 full range speakers. That can get really expensive and I would opt for multiple subs at that point and DSP, but I digress.

 

[Another Bob]

Room treatments tend to be expensive, hard to return, and difficult to model in terms of their effect in real-world rooms. My recommendation is to experiment. Acoustic ceiling tiles and various insulation products can be acquired for little money, or you could even hang folded blankets for zero cost. Diffusers are a bit harder to cobble together. Sure, it will be ugly, and won't perform exactly like the commercial products, but it should give you an idea about the general effect and the best locations for placement. My own (limited) experience has been that the results for absorbers are often counter-intuitive, and that in my room, most placements made things worse rather than better.

 

[Daverz]

Didnt realise I could do that, here is the zip if I have done it right, measurements taken at 60db if that makes any difference

Base layer speakers at 60db.zip

Looks pretty good to me. If you've already time and phase aligned the subwoofers and mains, you could try using REW EQ below 200 Hz.

 

[JohnDykstra]

Hey everyone. So I'm new here, please be gentle with me, I'm just getting the 'lay of the land' on this forum.

If I say anything out of line or without following forum protocol, please forgive me, I'll adjust quickly with guidance.

No hair left, your room graphs in REW actually look pretty decent. Far better than many untreated rooms that come across my desk. You don't have any dsp correction applied during these sweeps do you? The sub regions looks far more linear than I'd expect.

It would be great to see a 'left with subs' and 'right with subs' in the same capture, just to get a full picture of sound over time in one view.

Could you maybe post that for us? A full range sweep of left alone with subs and right alone with subs, and if there is any dsp correction currently in play, let's turn that off for now as well.

 

[Keith_W]

Hey everyone. So I'm new here, please be gentle with me, I'm just getting the 'lay of the land' on this forum.

Welcome to ASR! You're not THE John Dykstra are you? The CGI John Dykstra?