Struggle replacing Old AVR - tried RZ50, 4800h, and Cinema 70 - what now?

[peng]

Doesn’t the old Audyssey have the midrange dip baked in?

Audyssey Midrange Compensation - On or Off? - Denon and Marantz Receivers - Simple Home Cinema

- Audyssey Midrange Compensation - On or Off? - Denon and Marantz Receivers

simplehomecinema.com

Add the dip back and I’m sure it will sound as it always did on the old 8002.

Yes, it's baked in unless one has the Pro version, then it can be disabled like the current apps can

 

[voodooless]

I went 10db hot on my 8002 and when I look at the frequency measurement of my sub and your chart, I can see why.

Better dial in the response via the Audyssey editor, the bass volume is a bit crude. You’ll want a much wider boost than just the sub. Also in general set your speakers to “small” even if they are quite capable. A high enough crossover point usually is beneficial for distortion and maximum SPL (if your sub(s) can keep up).

 

[techsamurai]

Yes, it's baked in unless one has the Pro version, then it can be disabled like the current apps can

There is a place to turn it off on the mobile version - I'm not sure it corrects the before and after charts though, only the curve. I think I noticed that discrepancy and I had to double-check the curve and the settings to make sure it was turned off

 

[techsamurai]

Better dial in the response via the Audyssey editor, the bass volume is a bit crude. You’ll want a much wider boost than just the sub.

One thing at a time I've got to take down my corrections and re-connect the 4800h and then apply them to the EQ and then to the curves.

I'm excited and this is huge considering my immense disappointment and frustration with all these AVRs out-of-the-box. I

 

[voodooless]

You may want to spend a little on this:

Secrets of Audyssey - Pro Guide - Simple Home Cinema

Audio Guides - Secrets of Audyssey - Pro Guide

simplehomecinema.com

 

[techsamurai]

You may want to spend a little on this:

Secrets of Audyssey - Pro Guide - Simple Home Cinema

Audio Guides - Secrets of Audyssey - Pro Guide

simplehomecinema.com

I've read some of it - I didn't buy the guide. Should I?

 

[voodooless]

I've read some of it - I didn't buy the guide. Should I?

That’s up to you there is lots of useful info already everywhere to be found. Having it condensed can be quite useful and time saving.

 

[rana_kirti]

op, I'm facing the same difficulty as you. I'm replacing my 20 ur old rx v450. I'm yet to hear a modern avr which is musical as my rxv450 in 2 channel stereo other than Nad and Anthem. but then both of these don't have Auro3d which is a must for me due to the upmixer.

I'm trying to solve it by getting a 2 channel channel amp and connect the tv optical out to the 2 channel stereo amp and use the speaker switch box.

unfortunately members here don't believe a 2 channel amp sounds any different for music vs. an avr. so much so that some say the integrated amp industry is a lie iny own thread.

Stereo Amp + AVR. Youtube Video with Stereo Amp Audio Left/Right. Is this possible ?

Movies AVR (with Pre-outs) powers all the 5.1 channels. Video by default is available. Music Stereo Amp powers the Left/Right. Video can also be made available ? Essentially want use AVR for Movies and the Stereo Amp for Music with the same Left/Right speaker of the 5.1 setup but also should...

www.audiosciencereview.com

so let us know if you are able to sort/figure this out. thanks.

 

[techsamurai]

That’s up to you there is lots of useful info already everywhere to be found. Having it condensed can be quite useful and time saving.

Here's an excerpt

1. House curves ignore Equal-Loudness principles set out in ISO226:2003 including the fact that our ears are less sensitive to both the low AND high-end as compared to the mid-range

Yeah, the mid-range is a goner on the 4800h and somewhat on the Cinema 70 only because MultEQ left some midrange behind.

I knew something is fundamentally wrong with the sound out-of-the-box after calibration...

 

[peng]

There is a place to turn it off on the mobile version - I'm not sure it corrects the before and after charts though, only the curve. I think I noticed that discrepancy and I had to double-check the curve and the settings to make sure it was turned off

Of course, but Voodooless was talking about the older aAudyssey, those are not compatible with the mobile app.

 

[techsamurai]

Of course, but Voodooless was talking about the older aAudyssey, those are not compatible with the mobile app.

yeah, my 8002 must have the dip - I didn't pick up on it in surround sound but I wasn't looking for it either.

I always use the custom stereo mode that comes with the 8002 for Music as it sounds better than Auto (which enables Audyssey) and sounds good but definitely not as good as Stereo. Can you tell if that mode is controlled by a separate board looking at the schematics?

 

[techsamurai]

so let us know if you are able to sort/figure this out. thanks.

Anything I find, I'd be more than glad to share and folks can decide if they like it and improve on it with their own tweaking.

As I said previously, I have switched from Audyssey which requires curve manipulation and then transfer of the results to the AVR to the built-in EQ on the AVR where I copy the Audyssey Flat settings (there's an option to do that) and then modify them manually so I can hear the changes on the fly. That's a nice feature by Marantz and Denon - I wish they offered some presets there.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002
8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 80028002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 8002 =

 

[techsamurai]

8002

Dude, I was soooo lucky I bought the 8002 - I could have been listening to music with semi-flattened Audyssey instead for 15 years and there was no changing that back then. I won't even mention the price for the other 2 I nabbed new with warranty.

Dodged a bullet - I'm curious to see how your 3700h sounds with the EQ settings - will it beat your main system? I would not be surprised if it does.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Dodged a bullet - I'm curious to see how your 3700h sounds with the EQ settings - will it beat your main system? I would not be surprised if it does.

You're not capable of comprehending my motivations because you're living in the past, with admittedly compromised hearing. The x3700h I purchased used was to play around with until the end of the year when I buy a processor, and because my RZ50 was overheating in the AV credenza I had it installed in.

And no, the Denon AVR doesn't sound anything like my main system.

 

[techsamurai]

And no, the Denon AVR doesn't sound anything like my main system.

Well, I know it doesn't without the updated EQ settings - I have the 4800h so we have almost the exact same sound and there's no button to fix it like the 8002 has.

Wait until we have new EQ settings for music and I'd be very curious to see if you prefer your 3700h or your main system. Guitars and vocals will floor you especially with Revels.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Here is the result of one calibration I ran using XT32 on my 4700. Correction is limited to 1100Hz. There is a 3dB upward tilt in the bass region, and the subs are boosted 1.5dB each. The dip you see from 100 to 200Hz is speaker boundary interference (SBIR), which is difficult for DRC to correct. XT32 does a respectable job there.

[EDIT: custom curve]

If I can find it again, I will post the difference between limiting correction to bass and lower mids and letting XT32 correct the entire curve. It does not necessarily do a great job up there.

[EDIT: found those graphs]

One concern I have with DRC is your B&W speakers. I had 3 pairs of B&Ws from 2000 through 2020. B&W speakers made back then were pretty accurate (excepting the CM4s), but they do suffer from significant directivity errors, which means DRC can be very unpredictable.

You made a comment that turning XT32 off is better. In my situation, turning it off is definitely NOT better. Bass has no impact at all in pure direct mode.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Well, I know it doesn't without the updated EQ settings - I have the 4800h so we have almost the exact same sound and there's no button to fix it like the 8002 has.

Wait until we have new EQ settings for music and I'd be very curious to see if you prefer your 3700h or your main system. Guitars and vocals will floor you especially with Revels.

What are you even talking abt? Room correction isn’t intended to be a sound mode.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

I have the 4800h so we have almost the exact same sound.

I'm using different speakers than you. I'm using SOTA amps, you're using AVR amps. My main system is balanced top to bottom, and Dirac for the MiniDSP Flex is configured using a calibrated microphone and laptop. I'm pretty sure when you had the RZ50 you used the cheap throwaway microphone, and likewise with the Denon x4800.

So no, we don't have almost the exact same sound.

there's no button to fix it like the 8002 has.

What button?

 

[techsamurai]

I'm using different speakers than you. I'm using SOTA amps, you're using AVR amps. My main system is balanced top to bottom, and Dirac for the MiniDSP Flex is configured using a calibrated microphone and laptop. I'm pretty sure when you had the RZ50 you used the cheap throwaway microphone, and likewise with the Denon x4800.

So no, we don't have almost the exact same sound.

What button?

Your hearing must exceed 20khz given your comments! You need that State of the Art Amp to sustain those high frequencies...