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Streaming Service Summary

pseudoid

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That topic is only in your head...
Sorry. I was not aware it was solved.
Do you think that maybe I should seek professional help?

I don't even think the benefits of what iTunes spearheaded was a good effort to balance out the dichotomy. Specifically those interests of consumers, artists and those of... well... you know exactly who.
I was looking for a less insultive and a more candid response.
But no need: 10Q.
 

sarumbear

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pseudoid

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No need to apologise but learn. Theres no point asking someone on a specialist forum how to rationalise something that has become general knowledge. Just do a simple Google search like below before posting.

If the best you can come up with is "Specialist Forum" as a snooty response to someone (anyone) attempting a genuine discussion, maybe I should boast about my education/experience in my bio. ... in the hopes to not be talked-down to by 'specialist', who provides me little information other than how to type a query in (of all places) google.

Maybe what you refer to as "general knowledge" comes into question by articles like this one: "Streaming Royalties and the Starving Artist: How Musicians Make Money" (2021/05/18)

Not that I care much about Streaming music but 2020 numbers show it makes up 83% of industry at $10Billion in revenue.
I am not certain if artists like Thom Yorke and Swift are representative of the 'artist collective' but the starving artists are now, at least, getting food rations but still getting short-shafted. I am also not that certain whether the streaming consumers are joyed at the prices they have to fork out to the… well… you know exactly who. << Hint: Neither the artists nor the consumers.
 

sarumbear

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If the best you can come up with is "Specialist Forum" as a snooty response to someone (anyone) attempting a genuine discussion, maybe I should boast about my education/experience in my bio. ... in the hopes to not be talked-down to by 'specialist', who provides me little information other than how to type a query in (of all places) google.

Maybe what you refer to as "general knowledge" comes into question by articles like this one: "Streaming Royalties and the Starving Artist: How Musicians Make Money" (2021/05/18)

Not that I care much about Streaming music but 2020 numbers show it makes up 83% of industry at $10Billion in revenue.
I am not certain if artists like Thom Yorke and Swift are representative of the 'artist collective' but the starving artists are now, at least, getting food rations but still getting short-shafted. I am also not that certain whether the streaming consumers are joyed at the prices they have to fork out to the… well… you know exactly who. << Hint: Neither the artists nor the consumers.
I can only repeat what I said: this is not the the forum to discuss music royalties, nor it is the topic of the thread.
 

MRC01

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I can only repeat what I said: this is not the the forum to discuss music royalties, nor it is the topic of the thread.
I somewhat agree with you, but it is not entirely off topic, because different streaming services compensate artists at different rates, and some streaming services (like Idagio) compensate artists using different formulas. Somebody might care about that, for example if you're torn between service A and B, and you think the way B compensates artists is better or more fair, it might become a factor in your decision.

The discussion about Copyright and Fair Use has also been useful. It's good to understand how the law is written, how it is enforced, and how it is interpreted, all of which can be different and affect each other. Some parts of it are important (don't distribute or re-sell copyrighted content), other parts are a distinction without a difference. For example, if lending violates copyright but selling does not, you sell the CD to your friend for $1 and later you buy it back for $1. Even more, he forgot to bring cash when you sold it to him, or he owed you a beer, so sold it to him on faith/credit, and when you later decided to buy it back, it obviated the need to collect the debt.
 

sarumbear

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I somewhat agree with you, but it is not entirely off topic, because different streaming services compensate artists at different rates, and some streaming services (like Idagio) compensate artists using different formulas. Somebody might care about that, for example if you're torn between service A and B, and you think the way B compensates artists is better or more fair, it might become a factor in your decision.
If, and that is a big if, we knew how royalties are distributed we may select the service according to how they treat artists , but we don't. In fact we cannot. Streaming services make deals with labels who have all distribution rights on any music ever produced by any signed artist. As those are financial deals the contents are not open to the public. Whatever you hear or read about a service pays more or less than the others are simply hearsay. Either show us your validated data or consider not pursuing this line of argument on a forum where data rules.
The discussion about Copyright and Fair Use has also been useful. It's good to understand how the law is written, how it is enforced, and how it is interpreted, all of which can be different and affect each other. Some parts of it are important (don't distribute or re-sell copyrighted content), other parts are a distinction without a difference. For example, if lending violates copyright but selling does not, you sell the CD to your friend for $1 and later you buy it back for $1. Even more, he forgot to bring cash when you sold it to him, or he owed you a beer, so sold it to him on faith/credit, and when you later decided to buy it back, it obviated the need to collect the debt.
This is yet another off-topic argument on a hardware forum. Copyright is a different subject. We are discussing streaming services. None are distributing music illegally. They are not misusing any copyright. If you want to have a discussion on royalties and copyright, create a new thread on the appropriate forum, please.
 
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acbarn

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Not to be contrary, but Qobuz doesn’t really qualify as a “major player”. Here are a few numbers for perspective:

Tencent Music: 615m users / 60.9m subscribers
Spotify: 365m users / 165m subscribers
Apple Music: 60m subscribers
Amazon Music: 55m subscribers
YouTube Music: 2bn music users / 30m subscribers
Pandora: 55.1m users / 6.2m subscribers
Gaana: 185m users
SoundCloud: 175m users
Audiomack: 17m users
Deezer: 16m users
Qobuz: 200,000 subscribers

These are a bit outdated, but show the relative sizes well enough.
 
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sarumbear

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cover_image-1625840639.jpg

Excluding Tencent which is available only on China you can see that almost 70% of the market is serviced by just four companies. The often discussed Tidal and Qobuz has less than 1% share and counted as "others". I do understand that niche players matter, especially on a forum like ASR. However, for the OP to miss the second largest supplier completely while including a bit-player is a tell-tell sign of how sometimes we don't look around and expand our horizons. (OP, this is not a snag at you. I'm just giving an example that we are all guilty of doing.)
 

acbarn

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Why would anyone choose their streaming service based upon market share?
Longevity perhaps (you have to wonder how long some of the niche services can continue to bleed money), or the social aspects if one is inclined to participate in those services (not my thing). I’m also wondering if the major services have more robust infrastructures which might make for more reliable streaming?
 

_theLaughingman

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Longevity perhaps (you have to wonder how long some of the niche services can continue to bleed money), or the social aspects if one is inclined to participate in those services (not my thing). I’m also wondering if the major services have more robust infrastructures which might make for more reliable streaming?
Interestingly, Spotify hardly makes a profit off their business model and their royalties rate going back to artists is even more atrocious. But the labels think the “streaming” business is what’ll keep them in business
 

MRC01

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If, and that is a big if, we knew how royalties are distributed we may select the service according to how they treat artists , but we don't. In fact we cannot. Streaming services make deals with labels who have all distribution rights on any music ever produced by any signed artist. As those are financial deals the contents are not open to the public. Whatever you hear or read about a service pays more or less than the others are simply hearsay. Either show us your validated data or consider not pursuing this line of argument on a forum where data rules. ...
Idagio says (reference): All artists on IDAGIO benefit from IDAGIO’s Fair Pay Model: up to 80% of net profits from the Global Concert Hall go directly to the performers; audio stream revenue is calculated not by stream but by the second, making for a much fairer remuneration model.

This is different from services focused on pop music, and more appropriate to classical music. Knowing this may be a factor for classical music listeners looking for a streaming service.
 

sarumbear

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Idagio says (reference): All artists on IDAGIO benefit from IDAGIO’s Fair Pay Model: up to 80% of net profits from the Global Concert Hall go directly to the performers; audio stream revenue is calculated not by stream but by the second, making for a much fairer remuneration model.

This is different from services focused on pop music, and more appropriate to classical music. Knowing this may be a factor for classical music listeners looking for a streaming service.
As I said before, there’s no data. The phrase “up to 80% of net profits” is as vague as it gets. 10% can be defined as up to 80%.

Meanwhile, do you expect labels like DG or Decca distribute royalties to the individual orchestra members, who are the performers?
 

MRC01

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As I said before, there’s no data. The phrase “up to 80% of net profits” is as vague as it gets. 10% can be defined as up to 80%.
Meanwhile, do you expect labels like DG or Decca distribute royalties to the individual orchestra members, who are the performers?
The company's own statement how they reimburse is "no data"?
The point is so simple I must assume you're ignoring it intentionally. Most streaming services reimburse based on count of tracks/streams, Idagio reimburses by time spent streaming. That's a difference, and some people might care about it.
 

sarumbear

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Interestingly, Spotify hardly makes a profit off their business model and their royalties rate going back to artists is even more atrocious. But the labels think the “streaming” business is what’ll keep them in business
I’m confused. Spotify pay labels. Labels then pay artists according to the contract each artist have with them. Other than a few exceptions all artists sign their output to a label. Why blame Spotify or any other streaming service? They are the equivalent of a record shop.
 

sarumbear

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The company's own statement how they reimburse is "no data"?
The point is so simple I must assume you're ignoring it intentionally. Most streaming services reimburse based on count of tracks/streams, Idagio reimburses by time spent streaming. That's a difference, and some people might care about it.
Im not ignoring. In fact I’m insisting. A datum (in this context) is a single number. If they said 80% that would have been a datum. But anything declared as from 0 to 80% is not data, it’s a range.

Counting tracks‘ play times is different, I agree.
 

ahofer

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I just started a trial with Idagio. Doesn't work with Chromecast or Roon. Until they fix that, I'm out. Chromecast devices show up, but it fails to stream to them, Roon unsupported.
 

_theLaughingman

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I’m confused. Spotify pay labels. Labels then pay artists according to the contract each artist have with them. Other than a few exceptions all artists sign their output to a label. Why blame Spotify or any other streaming service? They are the equivalent of a record shop.
Your argument is valid, unfortunately the system is stacked against independent artists the most since some of them have the ability to publish via a record label. Few months ago i remember seeing a price breakdown of what the major platforms payout per stream and it was diabolical at what the rate was.
 
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