Streamers. I don’t get it. Am I missing something?

[Geert]

And in your family room, you want remote control of course. Can also be done via server software on a laptop (no, a 15 feet USB cable is not an acceptable solution), but it's one more step closer to a dedicated streamer.

 

[Roland68]

What is the need of a Streamer when we can connect Laptop to a DAC through USB and use the internal Hard disk of the Laptop or an External HDD to play our music collections we have and play the Music Streaming services like Apple Music, Spotify etc., from the laptop itself ?


What place do a Streamer have here to convince one to go for it ?

You only see your own use case, for example at your desk, where your laptop is.
But the majority have a HiFi system in a living room, a room specifically for it or even in the bedroom and don't want a laptop or PC there.
Many people also use their laptop/PC or MAC for work. This becomes a problem when it comes to computing/performance-intensive requirements.

There are many areas of application where the laptop/DAC combination is not ideal, or where someone doesn't want it.
You just have to think outside the box.

And no, there is definitely no advantage to this combination in terms of sound.

 

[JeremyFife]

Isn't a Streamer just a dedicated computer anyway?
I use a WiiM mini downstairs because of the form factor - it just tucks away out of sight, always available via the app. Laptop upstairs because that's where my laptop is anyway, at my desk and on.

i.e. choice for me is based on features and form factor. I couldn't be bothered to start-up a laptop / PC downstairs and I have no need for a dedicated streamer upstairs. There's no difference to the sound.

 

[somebodyelse]

We've another thread about this already:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-i-don’t-get-it-am-i-missing-something.25213/

 

[BDWoody]

We've another thread about this already:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/streamers-i-don’t-get-it-am-i-missing-something.25213/

Merged.

 

[SiR]

You only see your own use case, for example at your desk, where your laptop is.
But the majority have a HiFi system in a living room, a room specifically for it or even in the bedroom and don't want a laptop or PC there.
Many people also use their laptop/PC or MAC for work. This becomes a problem when it comes to computing/performance-intensive requirements.

There are many areas of application where the laptop/DAC combination is not ideal, or where someone doesn't want it.
You just have to think outside the box.

And no, there is definitely no advantage to this combination in terms of sound.

Me too have my Hifi system in the Living Room and placing the Laptop near it is not an issue, moreover the Laptop is to be used only for the hifi setup

 

[Roland68]

Me too have my Hifi system in the Living Room and placing the Laptop near it is not an issue, moreover the Laptop is to be used only for the hifi setup

That's your solution and it may be OK or perfect for you, but not for others.
Ich möchte keinen PC oder Notebook im Wohnzimmer haben und kenne viele HiFi- und Musikliebhaber die das auch nicht möchten, das muss man aber jedem selbst überlassen.

There are also many streamers with a good built-in DAC that can also be used by other devices. No reason for 2 devices

Basically, you can't care, can you?
Nobody needs to convince you of the need for a streaming device and you won't be able to convince others of your solution, especially if they have good experience with streaming devices.

The steadily increasing number of streaming devices sold, which are much higher than for dedicated DACs, speaks for itself.
By the way, there are many users who use a streamer like Wiim in addition to having a notebook and DAC, and they do so out of conviction.

And, in addition to the generally poorer usability due to the lack of decent apps and remote control, there are 3 major disadvantages:
1. Good streamers are available from around €100/$, e.g. WiiM Mini. Little further effort required.
2. The entire system including audio software has to be set up and maintained, which can be very time-consuming with some operating systems. My time is too expensive for something like that and a dedicated streamer is much cheaper.
3. The security risk with a relatively unused (only music, as you write) and mostly badly neglected laptop/PC is very high. Not only can someone use it to spy on everything in your home network, it is often used to distribute illegal things.

Roon-based devices (and similar) are a completely different world, but also a completely different effort in every respect.

 

[krabapple]

ah, another 'stereo'-centric thread on ASR....

I use a laptop/foobar/HDMI out to AVR DAC, to play everything , by which a mean a lot of multichannel of various formats, as well as stereo files.

But finally I did have to buy a 'streamer' -- and Apple Music box, which must be connected physically to the AVR -- to get Apple's exclusive surround/Atmos mixes. It can't be done using a laptop app, AFAIK.

Steve Jobs wins again, in hell.

 

[Woody99]

For a relative newcomer, can anyone explain what physical form a 'streamer' takes inside a PC, DAC, amp etc - is it a computer chip, a chip combined with something else or none of the above? Are they like DACs with different manufacturers, model numbers and discernible differences in sound quality or is a streamer a streamer? Just wondering about the components as well as the sound and price differences between say a Wiim Mini and an Eversolo DMP A8.

 

[TonyJZX]

would that just be the definition of a 'computer' with some kind of network connection

the computer has the ability to store access details to obtain music either locally or on the internet?

isnt that it?

i mean a Rasp. PI can do it - so can any smartphone?

it should stand to reason that a PI will have the same SQ as a DMP A10 as long as both are outputting to a control DAC... and to be fair, both have to be streaming same file from same source and assuming a perfect stable network connection

 

[shuppatsu]

I have a Wiim Amp about 3 feet from my PC, and have no regrets. My PC is connected to a D10S -> L30II -> HD6XX. I would need to buy a new DAC or at least a switch to keep that setup going.

I don't want music to stop when my son is playing video games, nor do I want to hear his video game sounds. I want it to connect to my TV.

One of my son's games uses a kernel-level anti cheat program that requires restarting to activate and that makes my computer unstable, so I'm restarting my computer all the time.

I could do all this with an HTPC but it would be more expensive and require more setup.

 

[Woody99]

I understand the convenience of a streamer but still don't understand the hardware in a streamer. Put another way, what hardware does a streaming amp have that a non-streaming amp doesn't have?

 

[Roland68]

I understand the convenience of a streamer but still don't understand the hardware in a streamer. Put another way, what hardware does a streaming amp have that a non-streaming amp doesn't have?

Streaming is first and foremost just software or software functionality. It has nothing to do with the hardware used, except that it requires certain data inputs, data outputs and a certain amount of processor power in between.

The difference from a device with the normal function of being able to play music that is stored locally is the ability to play music from another location, in your house or outside, without first copying the file locally. This is called streaming.

That's why you can turn almost any PC, Mac, Raspberry, etc. into a streamer by installing and configuring suitable software.

A DAC function and everything else are additional components.

 

[Woody99]

Streaming is first and foremost just software or software functionality. It has nothing to do with the hardware used, except that it requires certain data inputs, data outputs and a certain amount of processor power in between.

The difference from a device with the normal function of being able to play music that is stored locally is the ability to play music from another location, in your house or outside, without first copying the file locally. This is called streaming.

That's why you can turn almost any PC, Mac, Raspberry, etc. into a streamer by installing and configuring suitable software.

A DAC function and everything else are additional components.

Great explanation, thank you. So the difference between say a $100 streamer and a $1000 streamer is due solely to the quality of 'additional components' used?

 

[Roland68]

Great explanation, thank you. So the difference between say a $100 streamer and a $1000 streamer is due solely to the quality of 'additional components' used?

And to make it even clearer for you, a Raspberry Pi Zero 2 W plus a 5 volt power supply and an 8/16GB micro SD card is enough to get a fully functional streamer, I've already tested it myself.
There is free and paid software for this.

You pay primarily for the development work and functionality of the streamer, hardware only afterwards.
These costs are also spread over the number of units sold.
That's why the differences are sometimes enormous, e.g. WiiM Mini and DMP-A8. For a DMP-A8, there are probably between 100 and 1000 WiiM Minis sold.
However, the hardware, housing, functionality (DSP, DAC, preamplifier, etc.) of the DMP-A8 is also significantly more expensive and complex.

 

[Woody99]

Thank you! Last question if I may, given this information what is the purpose and benefit of an (expensive) 'streaming transport' if it has only software and a power supply but no DAC?

 

[Roland68]

Thank you! Last question if I may, given this information what is the purpose and benefit of an (expensive) 'streaming transport' if it has only software and a power supply but no DAC?

That depends on you, and only you can say whether the more expensive device is of any use to you.
You have to decide what functionality you want, how important support, feel, appearance, build quality, etc. are.

Devices without a DAC are actually rare, do you mean certain devices?

While some complain that the WiiM Pro, Plus, Ultra are so expensive, others think that devices like the CXN100 and DMP-A8 are a good deal, it's all a question of your own requirements and attitude.
Just as an example, I know three statements about the DMP-A8: far too expensive, one of the best devices I've ever had (owner), lacks functionality and is not high quality enough (probably future buyer of the DMP-A10 or even more expensive device).

 

[Booker]

Thank you! Last question if I may, given this information what is the purpose and benefit of an (expensive) 'streaming transport' if it has only software and a power supply but no DAC?

Check out what you get when you buy the ZEN Mk3 by Innuos.

• your music opens up and reveals new levels of realism
• “blacker” music background and enhanced realism
• improving sound quality on all network audio
• clean audio signal
• improving sound quality

Tempting, isn't it? Of course not.

 

[Purité Audio]

In summation no difference in sound quality but you might choose additional features build quality, preferable UI etc.
Keith

 

[Woody99]

By 'streaming transport' I mean 'DAC-less' streamers such as the Lumin U2 and Auralic Aries series, not a network streamer. If there is no DAC inside what is left inside to impact sound quality?