Streamer versus Computer?

[Timcognito]

For me its the mobility, multi room and GUI on a tablet even though I have a computer running 24/7 w/Roon. It's all about having a couple dedicated tablets with simple GUIs as remotes and my music NAS, Internet radio, BT HPs and Qobuz jumping from source to source with a couple of taps everywhere indoors or out.

 

[BillG]

Why use a streamer as opposed to a computer?

There's no one-size-fits-all solution that suits everyone's needs and preferences. It's not all about the value proposition that engineers typically prioritize.

I personally use both.

Using the computer as a source is only suitable at my desk for me, though, since the computer is general purpose and I'm doing other things with it while listening.

In the living room, I use a streamer - well, a streaming integrated amplifier currently. I perfer a minimum amount of components there for aesthetic reasons and computer would be another box.

 

[EERecordist]

Streamers are computers. Our mobile phones are computers. Our video doorbells are computers, our TVs are computers. Many active speakers are computers.

The Windows codebase is its own thing. Almost everything else is based on UNIX/Linux, including embedded Linux. Any of those have a vast library of software modules.

Hackers and code security researchers continue to find zero-day vulnerabilities, even in 20+ year old libraries. And hackers can occasionally inject vulnerabilities into open source code repositories.

That is why Microsoft, Apple, and Android are putting out updates many times a year. They have the gross margin to maintain and update their codebase to all the end devices. At least one doorbell maker updates their code. Is your streamer maker updating their code? On the plus side, the number of dedicated streamer endpoints is small, so they are generally not worth hacker effort to compromise unless the owner is a high value target.

 

[Ruediger]

Why use a streamer, (such as a WiiM, Eversolo, Bluesound, et al.), rather than a computer for streaming audio? All streaming services as well as Roon have browse-based interfaces, so where is the advantage of a dedicated streamer device, excepting perhaps initial set set-up?

I am an IT guy myself and have a PC and foobar running almost all day. I don't use streaming services, only local media via smb and dlna.

Used to build several generations of HTPC and had PCs as media players in the living room for many years. All Win based.

In the media area I moved away from that because of too many problems with display drivers, HDR, DV, multichannel audio via HDMI. A constant hassle. Kodi fixes these things partially, but not perfectly on Win. Neither on android btw. A small $1xx amlogic box with CoreELEC (Linux) and Kodi fixes all these things once and for all. Plus the remote topic. A library like mine with 700k+ items and all infos scraped runs from a 64GB sdcard for many years. The overall costs are very small compared to a PC solution, but the main point is always hassle-free operation.

As we are in an audio forum I go on to say for audio I require a quality output. So foobar to some RealTek onboard audio jack is not gonna cut it. A board with toslink out would be the minimum requirement to work with. But if you require analogue to an amp a competent audio device is required. That easily gets in the price range of a WiiM streamer (maybe not the Ultra). So why can't a WiiM be that device? It does this job perfectly and then a dozen more.

Let's just look at the foobar integration with the WiiM streamers. Linkplay profile by default in the UPNP settings. Send whatever across the network to them, remote control them with foobar or phone/tablet/remote. Gapless, pause, all formats - just works. Very high output quality after the ESS DAC, EQ, filters, sub management, room fit, etc. - it will be really hard to achieve all that with a PC. Especially by an average joe. And then the remote control of all that.. yeah no.

Same as with a CoreELEC box this is a solution that solves all the smaller and bigger problems one comes across when attempting the PC route. Would I pay $2k for it? No, probably not. But a WiiM price in the range of a sound device that would be about as competent but not anywhere near that versatile - yes.

Leaving out the argument of having to run a PC to hear music or play media. Some find that very inconvenient, especially the remote control topic, but some not.

 

[TheWalkman]

Streamer.

Though both work, arguably, equally well, my primary streamer is a Pi Zero 2W based jewel that runs Volumio 7x24x365 for 3 +/- years now. It draws 0.7 - 2W compared to a PC that can easily draw 10 to 50 or more times that amount of power.

The Pi does everything I need and knowing it’s a bit more environmentally friendly than running an old PC puts a bigger smile on my face than the alternatives. (Of course, I like to ride my bike and my daily driver is a four cylinder that gets over 40 mpg when I take a trip to the grocery store for that gallon of milk. Thanks, too, to the foolishness we’re living thru now, having a 12.5 gallon tank on said car with a 400+ mile range really puts a smile on my face at the gas station compared to the guy at the next pump, who takes out a second mortgage every time he fills the tank on his Chevy Suburban Land Yacht. Different discussion.)

We all leave a mark on this Earth and though individually our footprint may be relatively small, when multiplied by tens of thousands or millions, it makes a difference. In the back of my mind, perhaps my little Pi streamer is the audio equivalent of the butterfly’s wings that ultimately influences weather events.

My $0.02.

 

[BlueTunes]

I don't understand the thread

I think the source is critical to the discussion here.

I use a Chromecast puck to my Dac. I stream from whatever device is nearby for my YTM subscription.
The Dac gets digital out from the puck.

Is this thread about using a computer as a analogue output directly to an amp?
Why would you even do that?

#confused.

 

[Ruediger]

Though both work, arguably, equally well, my primary streamer is a Pi Zero 2W based jewel that runs Volumio 7x24x365 for 3 +/- years now. It draws 0.7 - 2W compared to a PC that can easily draw 10 to 50 or more times that amount of power.

It doesn't get more efficient than a Pi. But a streamer box will be not far away. And far away from that PC.

I hope you don't use a beefy class AB amp and opted for class D. That is also a big difference in power consumption.

 

[antcollinet]

I don't understand the thread

I think the source is critical to the discussion here.

I use a Chromecast puck to my Dac. I stream from whatever device is nearby for my YTM subscription.
The Dac gets digital out from the puck.

Is this thread about using a computer as a analogue output directly to an amp?
Why would you even do that?

#confused.

No, it is about using a computer as the primary streaming device rather than a dedicated streamer. That might involve using the analogue output (nothing wrong with that - many measure as audibly perfect), but can also include digital out to external DAC or integrated amp.

 

[jareinertson]

Why use a streamer, (such as a WiiM, Eversolo, Bluesound, et al.), rather than a computer for streaming audio? All streaming services as well as Roon have browse-based interfaces, so where is the advantage of a dedicated streamer device, excepting perhaps initial set set-up?

A computer can cost you significantly less money than a streamer if chosen sensibly. For example an Eversolo DMP-A6 Gen 2 cost CAD 1300; one can buy a fairly powerful Windows computer for much less than that. The computer could at the same time run the Roon server for folks using the service.

I recently purchased then resold a WiiM Ultra. Subsequently -- and stupidly after the WiiM experience -- bought and resold an Eversolo A6. I was running a Windows computer playing my own library used Foobar2000 and intended to continue doing so. Neither of those mentioned streamers added any value for me.

Streamer because we have a dedicated stereo system in the living space but no computer. The computer resides in the office or it’s an iPad in our laps. The WiiM Mini provided excellent streaming technology and functionality in a tiny device easily managed by an app or in even Apple Siri( limited). No PC required.

 

[Gorgonzola]

Roon does not use a browser based interface, it used OpenGL 3.0 or higher as the GUI engine. (see https://www.opengl.org/)

In fact very few music applications (3rd parry like Roon or those that are native to some hardware device) use a browser based interface, they instead use a GUI engine.

LMS is one that is browser based.

Peter

I'm not sure we're using quite the same definition of browser-based. However I was mistaken to refer to "browser-based" in that most PC music players, Roon, Tidal, etc., run as dedicated application under Windows and are not browser-based, (as running in Chrome o Edge for instance).

 

[Gorgonzola]

My $99 WiiM would like a word.


A PC requires more technical knowledge to set up and operate. I use a PC in my living room, I use streamers in my bedroom and den. They do different things. A PC can certainly be cheaper than "audiophile" scam streamers but it's definitely a bigger commitment in both time and money to set one up vs. a WiiM Mini or WiiM Pro.

I'm NOT trying to "refute" what you're say, but I will say it very much depends on one's personal comfort level with alternative devices.

A computer-based system might comprise a <$300 laptop, preferably with an external DAC that might be <$150. Also, many people use Raspberry Pi devices using LMS as streamers. As for the RPi, I've tried such a system myself and it is certainly more cumbersome to set up the streamer like a WiiM Pro or Ultra -- but also more involved than Windows PC for someone who is used to Windows.

My current Windows setup consists of a Win 11 machine on which I use Foobar2000 as player with the MathAudio Room EQ plug-in, plus a Topping DAC. The trickiest part of getting this working was the configuring Foobar to my preferences. However the end result is far better for my needs that any other music library browser than any I've seen including other PC players, RPi PiPlayer, WiiM and Eversolo, Roon and Tidal that I've tried.

 

[BlueTunes]

No, it is about using a computer as the primary streaming device rather than a dedicated streamer. That might involve using the analogue output (nothing wrong with that - many measure as audibly perfect), but can also include digital out to external DAC or integrated amp.

Ah.
I'm confused because I can't see why anyone would want a tethered computer source for music unless it's something like working in an office and you have the computer open anyway.

I'd find it utterly cumbersome.
I also agree with the power consumption comments made above. Keeping a computer on for audio gets expensive in electricity costs.

Unless you are using a hifi (?) soundcard for analogue output, it makes even less sense to me.

That's not to denigrate those that do, but this is just my opinion on it.

 

[goat76]

I think my “scam” streamer, a Linn Akurate DSM, has a really nice-looking interface. It's great to have everything under the same software roof, as in most of the music streaming providers, internet radio providers, and my own music library (stored on a NAS). Yes, I know all that can be handled with ROON on a computer, and there is likely a sea of other similar solutions that can be easily downloaded to a computer, but with the streamer I use, all that is already there by default, and can be used just after a few logins for the different providers. There is hardly ever any problems that needs to be solved, most of the time it just works flawlessly. I think I have used this since 2011, or so.

Below is how the Linn software interface look like when using Tidal. It’s not only looks good, it’s also very easy to use and browse artists, and I can as easy choose music from my own library and add them to the same playlist as the music from Tidal. Any radio channel from the world is as easy to access as well.

 

[anonyless]

Why use a streamer, (such as a WiiM, Eversolo, Bluesound, et al.), rather than a computer for streaming audio? All streaming services as well as Roon have browse-based interfaces, so where is the advantage of a dedicated streamer device, excepting perhaps initial set set-up?

A computer can cost you significantly less money than a streamer if chosen sensibly. For example an Eversolo DMP-A6 Gen 2 cost CAD 1300; one can buy a fairly powerful Windows computer for much less than that. The computer could at the same time run the Roon server for folks using the service.

I recently purchased then resold a WiiM Ultra. Subsequently -- and stupidly after the WiiM experience -- bought and resold an Eversolo A6. I was running a Windows computer playing my own library used Foobar2000 and intended to continue doing so. Neither of those mentioned streamers added any value for me.

can only speak for myself, but my main usage of the WiiM Ultra is as a pre-amp, equalizer, audio hub that has my laptop & CD player connected to it (as transport on HDMI ARC no less!) , and also as a streamer . plus device that can be controlled with a remote control. not to mention the sub out .
it's well worth its cost

 

[tom_tom]

I use streamer mainly for convenience. Additionally Wiim Ultra have HDMI arc so it's not only for music but movies too. It serves as preamp for power amplifier. Subwoofer management is also big advantage. Not sure how I could do that easily with pc.

 

[JeremyFife]

Can't vote (isn't a streamer a dedicated computer anyway?)

Computer upstairs, because that's the office and that's where my laptop is anyway. JRiver, all good.

Streamer downstairs (WiiM mini) because I don't need a computer there. Also good.

Horses for courses?

 

[antcollinet]

Ah.
I'm confused because I can't see why anyone would want a tethered computer source for music unless it's something like working in an office and you have the computer open anyway.

I'd find it utterly cumbersome.
I also agree with the power consumption comments made above. Keeping a computer on for audio gets expensive in electricity costs.

Unless you are using a hifi (?) soundcard for analogue output, it makes even less sense to me.

That's not to denigrate those that do, but this is just my opinion on it.

Of course - a "computer" could include something like a headless raspberry pi - which takes less than 5W continuous - or as I post above. My laptop - I only listen to music in here when also "on line"

 

[amper42]

I'm trying to "refute" what you're say, but I will say it very much depends on one's personal comfort level with alternative devices.

A computer-based system might comprise a <$300 laptop, preferably with an external DAC that might be <$150. Also, many people use Raspberry Pi devices using LMS as streamers. As for the RPi, I've tried such a system myself and it is certainly more cumbersome to set up the streamer like a WiiM Pro or Ultra -- but also more involved than Windows PC for someone who is used to Windows.

My current Windows setup consists of a Win 11 machine on which I use Foobar2000 as player with the MathAudio Room EQ plug-in, plus a Topping DAC. The trickiest part of getting this working was the configuring Foobar to my preferences. However the end result is far better for my needs that any other music library browser than any I've seen including other PC players, RPi PiPlayer, WiiM and Eversolo, Roon and Tidal that I've tried.

It's really what you are comfortable with and enjoy using. Nothing else matters.
For me, I tried Foobar2000 and its interface was lazy and unintuitive on the Mac. I dumped it after a short trial.
I found Audirvana on the Mac was superior visually and functionally. But, I actually prefer using the Moode album cover interface for my local music as it requires absolutely no Mac or PC to run. The RPi5 runs headless and can support large playlists or select albums with the IP address interface from any phone, tablet or computer. Playback can work for hours even days without a computer connection.

Moode on RPi5 is ultra simple to use while the beautiful album cover interface is a joy for local USB based music.
Year ago, Moode was more complicated to setup but now with Raspberry Pi imager you fill in the parameters to install and it works every time. I can setup a new SD CARD in about 5 minutes from start to finish and it supports ultra high quality audio output (even 352kHz output over USB to my RME ADI-2 DAC FS). It's a clear winner in my setup with none of the artificial limitations of most streamers.

The bonus is I can build my own tiny Pi case using an open plexiglass design that maximizes cooling and style. I decide whether it uses SD CARD, NVME or USB storage or any combination. All work well but it's fun to play with options. The load required by Moode is ultra low so you can use just about any PI, but the RPi5 is extremely snappy while only requiring 5W to operate and actually runs cooler than my previous RPi4 based Moode setup. The RPi5 with 4GB offers more memory than required and my on board Temp. speed controlled fan is absolutely dead silent except for 2 sec when booting. The functionality is continually growing even though it's staggering what it can do now. It's a tiny work of art and science. I'm really glad I took the time to explore this option.

 

[whereisbrian]

I use a dedicated €50 laptop that I refurbished myself, equipped with a USB DAC and a Class D amplifier.
No need for a powerful PC. It works perfectly. Perhaps not expensive enough...
No streaming; I refuse to do it. Just FLAC albums.

 

[Gorgonzola]

can only speak for myself, but my main usage of the WiiM Ultra is as a pre-amp, equalizer, audio hub that has my laptop & CD player connected to it (as transport on HDMI ARC no less!) , and also as a streamer . plus device that can be controlled with a remote control. not to mention the sub out .
it's well worth its cost

I can't knock the WiiM Ultra that I used for a while. But I mainly used it only as a preamp; for player and equalizer I used my Win-based Foobar2000 player with MathAudio Room EQ. Presently I'm using Foobar directly to my Topping D90 DAC in preamp mode is Topping's remote for volume control.