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Streamer for Genelecs

waynel

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#21

Tangband

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#22
I have found Volumio to be poor as a streamer. Tried the Raspberry Pi route but was unhappy with the stability (although spotify connect was mostly good) and I own the MiniDSP SHD but don't use it as a streamer (and wouldn't recommend it as a streamer).

What you need is a Coax digital out that has volume control and Genelecs will work with a 75-110 Ohm converter
https://www.community.genelec.com/forum/-/message_boards/message/933116#/

Sonos, MusicCast, and Heos have figured out the streaming thing and made is easy and reliable so I recommend picking one of those. If you want to constantly tinker with you networking settings, remounting your music drives and periodically rebooting you can give Volumio a try.

I use a Yamaha WXC-50 via digital out and this works fine with volume control. The Sonos Port would work as well.
I also have a Yamaha WXC-50 and will use the digital out from the Yamaha to my New Genelec 8340 which I will receive in about a week. I will try to use a rca-xlr aes-ebu cable to one loudspeaker and send to the next with aes ebu out to the digital input for the second loudspeaker using xlr cable.

Is the 75-110 Ohm converter really neccessary for proper functioning ?
Can you use it without converter ?
 

waynel

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#24
Is the 75-110 Ohm converter really neccessary for proper functioning ?
Can you use it without converter ?
I think this will probably work for short (12’ or less) cables and it depends on the implementation at the receiving end(the Genelec speaker). That being said, the neutrik adapter cost is a small fraction of the system cost .
 

Tangband

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#25
I think this will probably work for short (12’ or less) cables and it depends on the implementation at the receiving end(the Genelec speaker). That being said, the neutrik adapter cost is a small fraction of the system cost .
Thank you for the advice.
 

Sprint

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#26
1) use a neutrik spiff to AES adaptor to feed one monitor, Use the AES through from that monitor to the second one
2) I recommend that you add a nanoDigi to use as sub crossover and room correction.
3) yes, WXC-50 volume control for digital out works great from remote, knob, or app. (keep it in preamp mode)
4) yes, I like spotify connect too but also use the MusicCast app
@waynel : Thanks a lot for the help! Some more questions!

1. I assume the Genelec gets the correct Left and Right channel music from the digital AES.
2. Since I just ordered MiniDSP 2x4HD which accepts Toslink as well. So can I use both the digital output. So that SPDIF can go to Genelecs via neutrik adapters and the toslink to minidsp 2x4HD for subwoofer correction.

One additional question. Does the new AVRs have new streamers that can be compared to what WXC50 offers? So far I have seen that AVRs do not have any digital out, correct! So in that case, the best sound one can get for my Genelecs is to get digital input from WXC50 directly without any DAC conversion. Is my assumption correct?

Thanks again.
 

Sprint

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#27
1) use a neutrik spiff to AES adaptor to feed one monitor, Use the AES through from that monitor to the second one
2) I recommend that you add a nanoDigi to use as sub crossover and room correction.
3) yes, WXC-50 volume control for digital out works great from remote, knob, or app. (keep it in preamp mode)
4) yes, I like spotify connect too but also use the MusicCast app
@waynel : Thanks a lot for the help! Some more questions!

1. I assume the Genelec gets the correct Left and Right channel music from the digital AES.
2. Since I just ordered MiniDSP 2x4HD which accepts Toslink as well. So can I use both the digital output. So that SPDIF can go to Genelecs via neutrik adapters and the toslink to minidsp 2x4HD for subwoofer correction.

One additional question. Does the new AVRs have new streamers that can be compared to what WXC50 offers? So far I have seen that AVRs do not have any digital out, correct! So in that case, the best sound one can get for my Genelecs is to get digital input from WXC50 directly without any DAC conversion. Is my assumption correct?

Thanks again.
 

waynel

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#28
@waynel : Thanks a lot for the help! Some more questions!

1. I assume the Genelec gets the correct Left and Right channel music from the digital AES.
2. Since I just ordered MiniDSP 2x4HD which accepts Toslink as well. So can I use both the digital output. So that SPDIF can go to Genelecs via neutrik adapters and the toslink to minidsp 2x4HD for subwoofer correction.

One additional question. Does the new AVRs have new streamers that can be compared to what WXC50 offers? So far I have seen that AVRs do not have any digital out, correct! So in that case, the best sound one can get for my Genelecs is to get digital input from WXC50 directly without any DAC conversion. Is my assumption correct?

Thanks again.
1. There is a dip switch on the genelec monitor to select which channel is played
2. Yes you could use the miniDSP 2x4hd to manage the subwoofers. The problem is that you won’t have a high pass filter applied to the main speakers, maybe you could use some of the genelec settings to create a high pass response? Are you using GLM?
i haven’t seen reasonable current AVRs with digital outs. Yes, you are correct that you can’t do better than keeping the signal digital all the way to the monitors.
 

Sprint

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#29
1. There is a dip switch on the genelec monitor to select which channel is played
2. Yes you could use the miniDSP 2x4hd to manage the subwoofers. The problem is that you won’t have a high pass filter applied to the main speakers, maybe you could use some of the genelec settings to create a high pass response? Are you using GLM?
i haven’t seen reasonable current AVRs with digital outs. Yes, you are correct that you can’t do better than keeping the signal digital all the way to the monitors.
Thanks! Yes, I will use GLM for all Genelec speakers. I read in Genelec manual that Digital has more priority than analog. So, if the digital input has a signal, the digital gets preference. I just need to ensure that WXC-50 is really switched off so that no digital input is passed. I was thinking I will not set any filters in Genelec. I will use a full range signal. But I will pass both the lower frequencies to Genelecs and subwoofers together. Currently, in my AVR, I have set Genelecs to large instead of small. This makes the lower frequencies below 80hz to both Genelecs and subwoofers. This has a different impact in my room and I am loving it.

Another question, how is your AVR Denon 3700H? I wanted to first replace my Yamaha RX-V775 and use Audyssey for sub correction. But I love Yamaha sound. On the other hand Yamaha 1080 Aventage did have only average SINAD performance when Amir measured but though not sure if lower SINAD is audible. Once the COVID situation gets better here, I will visit a store to listen to 3700H.
 

waynel

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#30
I was thinking I will not set any filters in Genelec. I will use a full range signal. But I will pass both the lower frequencies to Genelecs and subwoofers together. Currently, in my AVR, I have set Genelecs to large instead of small. This makes the lower frequencies below 80hz to both Genelecs and subwoofers. This has a different impact in my room and I am loving it.
This is overall a bad idea. You will get better results by high passing the signal to your monitors so it does not overlap with the subs. Then use filters to adjust the room curve to your liking.
 

Sprint

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#31
This is overall a bad idea. You will get better results by high passing the signal to your monitors so it does not overlap with the subs. Then use filters to adjust the room curve to your liking.
@waynel Thanks, I too was thinking like that. But when I saw the Yamaha AVR manual, it says that when the woofer is 6,5 inch or larger, one can set the speakers as large and the lower frequencies will be sent to both speakers and subwoofers. In another forum, an expert says that if one is not eq'ing the subs, then one can leave it at large just not to miss any frequencies. Since I do not use eq for subs until I get my minidsp 2x4HD delivered tomorrow, I tried with the setting large. The set up sounds amazing. But during the next days, I will apply eq to subs via minidsp and try it out. Probably the eq will take care of lower frequency issues for the subs and then I will set the Genelecs as small with cross over frequency as 80 HZ. I will share my expeience.
 

waynel

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#32
@waynel Thanks, I too was thinking like that. But when I saw the Yamaha AVR manual, it says that when the woofer is 6,5 inch or larger, one can set the speakers as large and the lower frequencies will be sent to both speakers and subwoofers. In another forum, an expert says that if one is not eq'ing the subs, then one can leave it at large just not to miss any frequencies. Since I do not use eq for subs until I get my minidsp 2x4HD delivered tomorrow, I tried with the setting large. The set up sounds amazing. But during the next days, I will apply eq to subs via minidsp and try it out. Probably the eq will take care of lower frequency issues for the subs and then I will set the Genelecs as small with cross over frequency as 80 HZ. I will share my expeience.
You can do this but I believe you shouldn’t .
1) any decent sub should be able to produce low frequencies with less distortion.
2) when you allow the low frequencies to overlap between the main speakers and the subs , there is no guarantee that they will be in phase across the overlapping frequencies, they will likely cancel at some frequencies while reinforcing at others .

I’m not sure who the “expert” that advised you is, but this is poor advice.
 

q3cpma

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#33
You can do this but I believe you shouldn’t .
1) any decent sub should be able to produce low frequencies with less distortion.
2) when you allow the low frequencies to overlap between the main speakers and the subs , there is no guarantee that they will be in phase across the overlapping frequencies, they will likely cancel at some frequencies while reinforcing at others .

I’m not sure who the “expert” that advised you is, but this is poor advice.
This, running subs without a crossover only makes sense for really full range speakers (main monitors or beasts like the Salon 2) in order to get more LF sources in the room to even the response. For the 8340A, I expect the gains in power handling and distorsion to be significant enough to never do this.
 

waynel

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#34
This, running subs without a crossover only makes sense for really full range speakers (main monitors or beasts like the Salon 2) in order to get more LF sources in the room to even the response. For the 8340A, I expect the gains in power handling and distorsion to be significant enough to never do this.
I disagree, it never makes sense. I even cross over my Salon 2’s at 80Hz to my far more capable subs.
 

Sprint

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#36
This, running subs without a crossover only makes sense for really full range speakers (main monitors or beasts like the Salon 2) in order to get more LF sources in the room to even the response. For the 8340A, I expect the gains in power handling and distorsion to be significant enough to never do this.
The Yamaha AVR 775 manual says "When you configure the speaker size, select “Large” if the woofer diameter of your speaker is 16 cm (6-1/4”) or larger or “Small” if it is smaller than 16 cm (6-1/4”)."

Since the woofer diameter of Genelecs is 16cm, I wanted to try with "Large". Additionally I have set extra bass to "On".

As per Yamaha Manual on extra bass, "Sets the speakers to produce the front channel low-frequency components.
Off (default) - Depending on the size of the front speakers, either the subwoofer or front speakers produce the front channel low-frequency components.
On - Both the front speakers and subwoofer produce the front channel low-frequency components."


At what volume levels can one hear distortion? I normally listen to 75db average and 85db peak. As per 8340A spec, it reaches as low as 45HZ. I still cross the subs at 80hz. The only thing I do not remember is what frequency I used to correct the Genelecs in GLM software. I guess I used above 80HZ. I want to redo the GLM with 40HZ atleast for 8340 and leave at 80HZ for surrounds which are 8339 and see how the whole set up sounds.
 

waynel

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#37
The Yamaha AVR 775 manual says "When you configure the speaker size, select “Large” if the woofer diameter of your speaker is 16 cm (6-1/4”) or larger or “Small” if it is smaller than 16 cm (6-1/4”)."

Since the woofer diameter of Genelecs is 16cm, I wanted to try with "Large". Additionally I have set extra bass to "On".

As per Yamaha Manual on extra bass, "Sets the speakers to produce the front channel low-frequency components.
Off (default) - Depending on the size of the front speakers, either the subwoofer or front speakers produce the front channel low-frequency components.
On - Both the front speakers and subwoofer produce the front channel low-frequency components."


At what volume levels can one hear distortion? I normally listen to 75db average and 85db peak. As per 8340A spec, it reaches as low as 45HZ. I still cross the subs at 80hz. The only thing I do not remember is what frequency I used to correct the Genelecs in GLM software. I guess I used above 80HZ. I want to redo the GLM with 40HZ atleast for 8340 and leave at 80HZ for surrounds which are 8339 and see how the whole set up sounds.
Those extra bass and large with subs settings on the Yamaha are not consistent with a science based approach to sound and are more for impressing the unknowable who are not used to balanced sound. As I mentioned earlier they do a lot of harm to proper sub integration and if you prefer more bass there are far better ways to achieve it. There are many useless or worse features in AVRs and this is one of them and best avoided.
 
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Sprint

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#38
Those extra bass and large with subs settings on the Yamaha are not consistent with a science based approach to sound and are more for impressing the unknowable who are not used to balanced sound. As I mentioned earlier they do a lot of harm to proper sub integration and if you prefer more bass there are far better ways to achieve it. There are many useless of worse features in AVRs and this is one of them and best avoided.
Thanks! Once I get minidsp (was about to be delivered today but looks I will get it on Monday), I will then switch to small and do proper bass management via minidsp.

BTW, are you happy with Denon x3700H?
 

waynel

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#39
Thanks! Once I get minidsp (was about to be delivered today but looks I will get it on Monday), I will then switch to small and do proper bass management via minidsp.

BTW, are you happy with Denon x3700H?
Yes, I’m happy with the Denon, it sounds transparent and serves my needs, audessy xt32 is very good using the app.
 

Sprint

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Yes, I’m happy with the Denon, it sounds transparent and serves my needs, audessy xt32 is very good using the app.
Thanks! Which streaming service are you using if I may ask. I learnt it was Spotify from your older posts. Did you decide on comparison with other services like Tidal or Qobuz? If yes, Is there a big difference in SQ to Tidal or Qobuz and Spotify?

Currently I use Apple Music via Apple 4KTV fed into Yamaha AVR 775. Spotify & Apple has largest collection of Indian music compared to Tidal or Qobuz. So in my case, the best will be to go for a combination of both Spotify or Apple Music (Indian) and Tidal or Qobuz (non-Indian). The service will then have to work with new Yamaha WXC-50. I assume the WXC-50 with digital out for Spotify and Tidal or Qobuz will sound much better than the current Apple Music via Apple 4K TV to AVR Yamaha 775 via analogue output. I do not have any CD or FLAC collection though. Or do you see WXC
 
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