Streamer and DAC considerations

[klinertay]

Yes, I heard this from AP Mastering too. It goes both ways. You are told two things measure flat and you hear them both as sounding the same. That’s how McGurk works, you are right.

 

[klinertay]

That makes no practical sense whatsoever.

That’s my point. Stop being so practical and enjoy your senses. I don’t think Max Roach always insisted his drums be tuned perfectly, which they can be.

 

[Mort]

That’s my point. Stop being so practical and enjoy your senses. I don’t think Max Roach always insisted his drums be tuned perfectly, which they can be.

My point would be to take this nonsense elsewhere.

You think you are the first person to ever say 'music is more than measurements'? We've heard it all.

 

[ahofer]

Different chips (like ESS Sabre, AKM, Burr-Brown) have distinct sonic characteristics, but the surrounding analog circuitry, power supply, and output stage matter just as much, impacting noise and signal integrity.

If by "sonic" you mean "audible to humans", there's very little if any evidence for that claim.

 

[voodooless]

That’s my point. Stop being so practical and enjoy your senses. I don’t think Max Roach always insisted his drums be tuned perfectly, which they can be.

The point is that it’s way more practical to not worry about the sound of DACs and enjoy the music

 

[popej]

It goes both ways. You are told two things measure flat and you hear them both as sounding the same.

It doesn't go. It would be like trying to prove that something doesn't exist. Not a scientific method.

 

[klinertay]

My point would be to take this nonsense elsewhere.

You think you are the first person to ever say 'music is more than measurements'? We've heard it all.

Apparently all of you who have heard it all don’t listen. For instance wide-band zero crossovers sound really great and measure like trash.

 

[Mort]

Apparently all of you who have heard it all don’t listen. For instance wide-band zero crossovers sound really great and measure like trash.

And you go on ignore.

 

[JustJones]

Apparently all of you who have heard it all don’t listen. For instance wide-band zero crossovers sound really great and measure like trash.

Which has nothing to do with DACs and streamers. Your idea of sounding really great probably doesn't align with mine. Wide band sounds kinda OK with girl and banjo but very little else.

 

[ahofer]

Apparently all of you who have heard it all don’t listen. For instance wide-band zero crossovers sound really great and measure like trash.

Apparently you who make tenuous claims don't read very well. For instance, this latest one on crossovers has nothing to do with your prior claims. Also "great" != "accurate", but that's another thread.

Let's start with what sorts of differences humans can hear and work from there. In general, this site is less interested in the things humans imagine they hear, apart from any reproducible science there might exist related to that phenomenon.

 

[klinertay]

Apparently you who make tenuous claims don't read very well. For instance, this latest one on crossovers has nothing to do with your prior claims. Also "great" != "accurate", but that's another thread.

Let's start with what sorts of differences humans can hear and work from there. In general, this site is less interested in the things humans imagine they hear, apart from any reproducible science there might exist related to that phenomenon.

Here is a good analogy for all of you who dumped on the guy who asked a legitimate question about PS Audio. You want consistent measurable, quantifiable food? Nothing hits the mark better than McDonalds. Go enjoy.

 

[voodooless]

Here is a good analogy for all of you who dumped on the guy who asked a legitimate question about PS Audio. You want consistent measurable, quantifiable food? Nothing hits the mark better than McDonalds. Go enjoy.

Once again a false analogy.

It’s like going to McDonalds and it tasing exactly the same a 3 Michelin Star restaurant.

Sure the atmosphere in the Michelin Star restaurant is much better, but the food taste exactly the same. Atmosphere has undeniably value as well, but you’ll have to realize that it’s only the atmosphere, nothing else.

 

[ahofer]

Here is a good analogy for all of you who dumped on the guy who asked a legitimate question about PS Audio. You want consistent measurable, quantifiable food? Nothing hits the mark better than McDonalds. Go enjoy.

You are way out of your depth intellectually. ignored.

 

[klinertay]

Once again a false analogy.

It’s like going to McDonalds and it tasing exactly the same a 3 Michelin Star restaurant.

Sure the atmosphere in the Michelin Star restaurant is much better, but the food taste exactly the same. Atmosphere has undeniably value as well, but you’ll have to realize that it’s only the atmosphere, nothing else.

OMG - I can’t believe you actually said that……

 

[voodooless]

OMG - I can’t believe you actually said that……

Arguments from incredulity aren’t very convincing…

 

[IngMishael]

Yes, I heard this from AP Mastering too. It goes both ways. You are told two things measure flat and you hear them both as sounding the same. That’s how McGurk works, you are right.

Please stop mentioning this pseudo intellectual charlatan

 

[PristineSound]

Cautionary tale. I so happen to have this in my hand when I saw this thread.

This is a smart plug, it can be controlled wirelessly throughout the world, you can set a schedule on it too.

So what does this have anything to do with a streamer?

Software updates. Once the manufacturer stops making updates to the software, the hardware can still work for a little bit or a long time, usually depending on the ecosystem, like the app store, the streaming services' API, etc, but the end fate is ultimately inevitable.

The industry standard is 10 years of software updates starting the date of product release, that's if they don't go out of business before then.

I have about 6 of these smart plugs in the house for about 5 years, they are all now paper weight.

Luckily, it isn't a $4k-$6k streamer.

 

[ahofer]

Cautionary tale. I so happen to have this in my hand when I saw this thread.

This is a smart plug, it can be controlled wirelessly throughout the world, you can set a schedule on it too.

So what does this have anything to do with a streamer?

Software updates. Once the manufacturer stops making updates to the software, the hardware can still work for a little bit or a long time, usually depending on the ecosystem, like the app store, the streaming services' API, etc, but the end fate is ultimately inevitable.

The industry standard is 10 years of software updates starting the date of product release, that's if they don't go out of business before then.

I have about 6 of these smart plugs in the house for about 5 years, they are all now paper weight.

Luckily, it isn't a $4k-$6k streamer.

View attachment 501129

When it is cloud-enabled/connected, that's true, because someone has to maintain the server. But there are a lot of logitech and other devices working exactly as they did when the updates stopped.

I have a scanner with an online service. The company went out of business four years ago. Amazingly enough, all the connected services still work, although it's possible the server is being run by some sort of scam/data gathering operation.

 

[ahofer]

Please stop mentioning this pseudo intellectual charlatan

Could it be that this is a clickbait account intended to promote AP Mastering? Seems plausible: go over to ASR, troll, get attention, raise the term's visibility.

 

[klinertay]

Please stop mentioning this pseudo intellectual charlatan

It’s like that Lewis Black joke about temperature. If it’s 20 degrees, like today, but the wind chill makes it feel like -1, THEN IT’S -1! For a feeling sensual human being, the temperature is -1. I like being called a charlatan, it means I am getting my ideas through. It’s a place to start.