strange SMSL M500 high 3rd harmonic

[JSmith]

Why did absolutely no one actually hear there was a problem with the M500 if it is really that atrocious as you make it out to be?

Sorry, but this is 100% irrelevant to this discussion on ASR... audibility is not the subject and that topic in general is best left for another thread, as it's not a specific discussion to the M500/SU-9.

The product was advertised and sold on the basis of the products measurements (see their marketing material) and it doesn't do what it is intended to do, thus it is not of merchantable quality and needs to be repaired.



JSmith

 

[Lupin]

Sorry, but this is 100% irrelevant to this discussion on ASR... audibility is not the subject and that topic in general is best left for another thread, as it's not a specific discussion to the M500/SU-9.

The product was advertised and sold on the basis of the products measurements (see their marketing material) and it doesn't do what it is intended to do, thus it is not of merchantable quality and needs to be repaired.



JSmith

You're correct that at the base the audibility of it all is not super relevant. But.. the way people react to this issue and the conclusions they draw makes it very relevant.

For the sake of this thread let's just agree to disagree

 

[JSmith]

For the sake of this thread let's just agree to disagree

No worries mate, disagree doesn't mean dislike.



JSmith

 

[nhs]

Why did absolutely no one actually hear there was a problem with the M500 if it is really that atrocious as you make it out to be?
The unit was released 1.5 years ago and until a bit over a month ago nobody had any issues with this "atrocious" DAC, in fact people on ASR were recommending it to other people even days before Liu started the topic about the issue.

As I said earlier, overheated reactions and blowing things out of proportion.

• Audibly or not is relative and subjective
• Depending on the equipment chain from the source to your ears
• Depending on the room u have
• Your equipment is only as good as the worst element include your ear
• Depending on if u have an other to compare
• Depending on if u have trained ears
• Be happy if u can not hear the difference

I guess many people also don't hear the the difference between the 99$ DAC like earmen Donald DAC or Earstudio HUD100 Portable DAC and a much more expensive DAC.
But it is not the topic we discuss here. The fact is the M500 and SU9 are defective. Point.

 

[WolfX-700]

Due to well-known reasons (the recent outbreak of COVID-19 in Guangzhou), my meeting with the SMSL boss had to be postponed. But I can bring a few news:
1. For foreign users, they will provide solutions through distributors.
2. For Chinese users, you can directly contact SMSL
3. I raised serious questions about their software and hardware version management. He accepted it and promised me that they would improve these aspects.
4. They also mentioned that due to the supply of chips and other components during this period, they often feel helpless. But I said that doing a good job of version management, doing a good job of verification, and doing a good job in the revision of promotional materials are things that manufacturers should pay attention to. He accepted.

 

[JSmith]

1. For foreign users, they will provide solutions through distributors.
2. For Chinese users, you can directly contact SMSL

Just to clarify, is this regardless of M500 or SU-9 and by solutions I assume that would mean an jtag device for SU-9 owners for example?

Thank you for following all this up and taking the time to discuss this further with SMSL, it is greatly appreciated.



JSmith

 

[WolfX-700]

Just to clarify, is this regardless of M500 or SU-9 and by solutions I assume that would mean an jtag device for SU-9 owners for example?

Thank you for following all this up and taking the time to discuss this further with SMSL, it is greatly appreciated.



JSmith

According to the description on SMSL, they will provide jtag devices to SU9 users. But M500 is still vague, and I can't put too much pressure on the other party in the conversation on social software...

 

[Lupin]

According to the description on SMSL, they will provide jtag devices to SU9 users.

Just purely out of curiosity..
What happens when customers manage to brick their SU-9 during an (attempted) firmware flash?
One can say that the procedure is "fool proof" but less technically inclined people will always find ways to "screw" things up in ways the technical person doesn't think off.

 

[Kaushama]

But shenzhenaudio is now asking to send the unit back. Earlier Mandy@SMSL suggested the tool would be sent for the upgrade. Sending and getting the unit back and forth to China is expensive with the risk of parcel loss. And the cost involved is significant. I can not understand the logic of returning the unit for such a simple solution.

 

[Kaushama]

I feel they should provide the tool to tech-savvy users to update the firmware at their risk. If they decide to honor the upgrade by their technicians only who is going to pay for the shipping charges?

 

[kfscoll]

Due to well-known reasons (the recent outbreak of COVID-19 in Guangzhou), my meeting with the SMSL boss had to be postponed. But I can bring a few news:
1. For foreign users, they will provide solutions through distributors.
2. For Chinese users, you can directly contact SMSL
3. I raised serious questions about their software and hardware version management. He accepted it and promised me that they would improve these aspects.
4. They also mentioned that due to the supply of chips and other components during this period, they often feel helpless. But I said that doing a good job of version management, doing a good job of verification, and doing a good job in the revision of promotional materials are things that manufacturers should pay attention to. He accepted.

Since SMSL is putting you in the unenviable position of running interference between customers and them (which is a HUGE foul on their part BTW), do you know what they mean by "they will provide solutions through distributors?" I bought my M500 through Amazon which AFAIK is a factory-authorized retail channel...but I have no idea who the distributor is. Should I expect Amazon to eventually contact me for the solution? If that's really SMSL's plan, well, good luck with that.

It would go a long way if SMSL would post their plans here...or at least post an official message stating that they're aware of the problem and are working on a solution. Relying on a third-party (you) to do so is amateur-hour caliber stuff. Everyone really, really appreciates your efforts, don't get me wrong, but until SMSL releases a statement, everything else is hearsay.

 

[JSmith]

which is a HUGE foul on their part BTW

Agree... I prefer that audio companies are like a good DAC, transparent.



JSmith

 

[WolfX-700]

Since SMSL is putting you in the unenviable position of running interference between customers and them (which is a HUGE foul on their part BTW), do you know what they mean by "they will provide solutions through distributors?" I bought my M500 through Amazon which AFAIK is a factory-authorized retail channel...but I have no idea who the distributor is. Should I expect Amazon to eventually contact me for the solution? If that's really SMSL's plan, well, good luck with that.

It would go a long way if SMSL would post their plans here...or at least post an official message stating that they're aware of the problem and are working on a solution. Relying on a third-party (you) to do so is amateur-hour caliber stuff. Everyone really, really appreciates your efforts, don't get me wrong, but until SMSL releases a statement, everything else is hearsay.

I deeply understand what you mean, and I am also puzzled that they still haven't used official channels (they have an account) to make a statement (but I didn't mention it to them). From my personal point of view, the way they handled this time was very slow and even a little stupid.

 

[lucadoc]

I bought M500 on Aliexpress, Aoshida seller and I live in Europe... Am I busted?

 

[chefffe]

Shenzenaudio sells via the Amazon platform. So they have to follow Amazon rules. The fix must therefore be provided by Shenzenaudio I guess.

@lucadoc
The chance is high that all M500 buyers are "busted" due to no easy access to the DAC FW.

 

[jani80k]

Let's give them some time. The semi-conductor shortage is real. Covid-19 is not always under control in China. They're in contact with @WolfX-700 . I am willing to wait for some more time.

 

[grzlybear]

I've purchased my M500 from the official SMSL ebay store in December 2020 (SW 1.7 HW 1.3).

I've written to the email address from the official SMSL website contact us page, linking to this thread and raising my concern that I have a faulty unit. I asked them if they were going to offer a replacement or repair service for my unit.

They quickly answered that they can send me an "upgrade tool", asking for my address and promptly shipping it out. The package is still on the way from China so I don't know what's in it or what the upgrade process entails.

Unfortunately I don't have a way to verify that my unit suffers from the problem, nor will I be able to verify the fix.

 

[Lupin]

Unfortunately I don't have a way to verify that my unit suffers from the problem, nor will I be able to verify the fix.

There is only a problem if you make it a problem.
Nothing stops you from enjoying your music like you did before you bumped into this thread, the unit has not changed at all. Only thing that has changed is that your brain is now primed to feel/hear/expect a change.

 

[Jimmy]

I don't think that is the question, these are not cheap products, and if effective SINAD in real conditions is much lower, it means that something much cheaper that performs as advertised would be a better option (regardless if the difference is audible or not, at least you get what you pay for).

It's a pity because I'm in the market for a new DAC (I had almost made my mind to purchase the SU9) and now I'll have to look elsewhere since I understand that all the stock that is now in resellers needs to be upgraded.

There is only a problem if you make it a problem.
Nothing stops you from enjoying your music like you did before you bumped into this thread, the unit has not changed at all. Only thing that has changed is that your brain is now primed to feel/hear/expect a change.

 

[dpippel]

Let's give them some time. The semi-conductor shortage is real. Covid-19 is not always under control in China. They're in contact with @WolfX-700 . I am willing to wait for some more time.

The semiconductor shortage has nothing to do with this issue, and they managed to meet with/talk to Prof. Wolf despite any COVID restrictions in China. Also, a COVID outbreak and chip sourcing problems have exactly zero bearing on the fact that S.M.S.L has not posted a single, solitary thing in this forum OR released an official statement about this defect in the M500/SU-9. They've chosen to say nothing official as a company, and that's very troubling indeed IMO.