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strange SMSL M500 high 3rd harmonic

lucadoc said:
If I have well understood the preamp section of this Dac is not so transparent or at list not so "resolutive" (forgive my bad English) when you lower the volume as there's not a fixed Dac position.

Now we are in the middle of a problematic situation : decrease the volume to avoid distortion or increase the volume to maintain the full resolution? Which is the lesser of evils?
Click to expand...
Lower volume is by far the lesser of the two evils.
 
JSmith said:
That's fine, but you don't get our POV here I think... plus the product should do as it is intended and marketed to do.
JSmith
Click to expand...
I do get it and I am also hoping for a firmware fix.
BUT a lot of people were raving on about how great this DAC sounds. Now suddenly, this issue has surfaced and some people are acting as if this DAC doesn't sound good anymore. This just doesn't add up for me.
That being said, I will repeat. I am also strongly hoping that the issue can and will be fixed via firmware to make this DAC even more perfect.
The test that exposed the flaws should also be part of the reviews from now on if you ask me.
 
I don't think it is audible.
The specs are not met in specific circumstances though.

You also cannot hear the difference (under normal usage) between a SINAD 120 DAC and SINAD 80 DAC when all they differ in is the distortion component either. That doesn't mean it could not be audible or an issue in extreme circumstances.

In any case it should and probably can perform even better (but most likely not audibly so)
 
jani80k said:
I do get it and I am also hoping for a firmware fix.
BUT a lot of people were raving on about how great this DAC sounds. Now suddenly, this issue has surfaced and some people are acting as if this DAC doesn't sound good anymore. This just doesn't add up for me.
That being said, I will repeat. I am also strongly hoping that the issue can and will be fixed via firmware to make this DAC even more perfect.
The test that exposed the flaws should also be part of the reviews from now on if you ask me.
Click to expand...
You don't update the dac firmware outside the factory, only the USB driver
 
Jimbob54 said:
You don't update the dac firmware outside the factory, only the USB driver
Click to expand...

dac firmware can definitely be updated in normal case. Topping E30 polarity issue was solved this way. though it's a simple one.

theoretically a firmware update is possible to resolve this issue as well.
1. if this is a firmware bug, updating it would just resolve it.
2. if this is a hardware issue, analyze the pattern of the third component. based on my testing above, it should be a function f(x) where x = R-L. the frequency domain then should be converted into a time domain filter, either FIR or IIR. Do some dsp in firmware to compensate for that function. this one shouldn't be too hard. but to do that 1) SMSL should have DSP people who know how to do it. Usually Chinese Hifi manufacturers don't have that tech ability. 2) the hardware should be powerful enough to do such DSP. I think XU218 is quite powerful and can do simple DSPs. but that depends on how complex the filter is.

if XU218 is not that powerful, it is also entirely possible to do it in the driver, so whatever plays on your computer is pre-computed on the fly to compensate for the elevated 3rd component. Though this limits the possibility to fix all use cases (such as spdif or non-windows operating systems).

In either case, let's wait a few days, to give SMSL people a little bit time to figure out what's going on there.
 
if it's a microprocessor firmware change, you may or may not be able to get to the micro flashing pins depending on how the usb interface is wired. until now, we've only seem updates to the xmos firmware, so it stands to reason that the usb goes entirely to the xmos and any further pin access would depend on how the xmos is wired and whether it can execute the flashing instructions for the central micro

this is all assuming it's fixable with a micro firmware update. i'm guessing it can at least be made better, if not perfect, with firmware update though.

is someone in china able to get wolfx an su-9, or amirm another su-9 to test if this affects them?

i have a first gen m500 in use in the other room, but we're going to be away for a month and may or may not bring it with us.
 
liu said:
Topping E30 polarity issue was solved this way
Click to expand...

But only for the USB input. A HW revision was needed for the SPDIF inputs

liu said:
In either case, let's wait a few days, to give SMSL people a little bit time to figure out what's going on there.
Click to expand...

exactly.
 
liu said:
dac firmware can definitely be updated in normal case. Topping E30 polarity issue was solved this way. though it's a simple one.

theoretically a firmware update is possible to resolve this issue as well.
1. if this is a firmware bug, updating it would just resolve it.
2. if this is a hardware issue, analyze the pattern of the third component. based on my testing above, it should be a function f(x) where x = R-L. the frequency domain then should be converted into a time domain filter, either FIR or IIR. Do some dsp in firmware to compensate for that function. this one shouldn't be too hard. but to do that 1) SMSL should have DSP people who know how to do it. Usually Chinese Hifi manufacturers don't have that tech ability. 2) the hardware should be powerful enough to do such DSP. I think XU218 is quite powerful and can do simple DSPs. but that depends on how complex the filter is.

if XU218 is not that powerful, it is also entirely possible to do it in the driver, so whatever plays on your computer is pre-computed on the fly to compensate for the elevated 3rd component. Though this limits the possibility to fix all use cases (such as spdif or non-windows operating systems).

In either case, let's wait a few days, to give SMSL people a little bit time to figure out what's going on there.
Click to expand...
My bad. I thought I'd seen posts on some of the smsl threads here that firmware never got upgraded once shipped.
 
I recieved my SU9 yesterday and until today :) I am absolutely satisfied with it. If feeds exactly what I needed. I cant hear any issue but of course I also want to have it fixed if the SU9 is as well affected. Dont forget the SU9 has on the bottom a pinblock which goes thru the housing. Maybe this can be used for a programmer ...
The Gustard X16 feels a little more solid (from the housing) and has some details which are better. It has caps over the RCAs and had a "golden" USB cable with a good length. This is missing on the SU9 but the SMSL beats the X16 by far with its BT and Display. Gustard was therefore sent back to Amazon ...
 
Last edited:
jruser said:
I was about to buy an SU-9 and SP400. I give up with the constant SMSL problems and revisions. Ordered another 887 and a D70s instead.
Click to expand...
Yeah and of course Topping had never any problems with any of their products in their product lineup... :facepalm:
 
I bought on Amazon, so i have 30days to use and "decide" ;)
I still cant believe that I will send it back, whatever is the outcome here ...
 
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