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strange SMSL M500 high 3rd harmonic

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you can't seriously expect that more than a few % of customers would actually know/understand what to do with a flash tool (which itself isn't free)...except if you'd be willing to down the cost for it and not aknowledge warranty for user induced damages if the flashing went wrong
Khadas did this for the early batches of the Tone2Pro to remedy an issue Amir had discovered in his review (abnormal rise in THD+N at the upper limit of the audible band at 48kHz - probably even less real world impact than the SMSL case). In those early units, the DAC chip couldn't be re-programmed via USB, so ST-Link tools were distributed for free based on the serial #, and they did a set of comprehensive tutorials for flashing the device. AFAIK there was no problem with exchanging the unit if one didn't feel up to it.

I have no technical background and up to that point I hadn't even known what the ST-Link was, but I watched the vid carefully, then played it again while performing the steps and 20mins later it was all done.
IMHO that's how you handle such situations as a manufacturer. It's a shame SMSL won't offer this possibility to those who want to try flashing the SU-9 themselves. I know that SMSL is much larger scale, but the lack of an official response is indeed disappointing.
 
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JSmith

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the lack of an official response is indeed disappointing
It sure is... further, I dare say some suppliers may think twice about stocking or re-selling SMSL products since they are now dealing with the returns, massive hassle especially for smaller suppliers.
if one didn't feel up to it
Agree and I'd suggest the majority of owners, in particular here, would have no issue with doing the update themselves with reasonable step by step instructions. If customers want to do so then they should be sent the update device with such instructions or an online tutorial as you suggested. They could even deal with this on a case by case basis and send out the tool to those that want it... I think many owners here would even be happy to pay them for the device and shipping of same if they could at least offer this.



JSmith
 
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They should just replace the units for the people complaining in this chat... it wouldn't be that many I suppose. I would guess that only a small majority of SMSL M500 owners follow this thread. The majority doesn't even know they have an issue.
 
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Take a deep breath, because I'm pretty sure most product documentation has something like this:
View attachment 134852

Or this:
View attachment 134853

Are you tearing down every appliance you buy and go through the parts to check for tricks and skulduggery?
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see such clauses banned and manufacturers required to announce any product revision. That would be hard to enforce in the age of subcontracting though, and I expect such regulations would irk the free market fandom, so here we are.

Man, you can change specs, but you should have changed your key features after that, especially when that's your selling point.
 
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Man, you can change specs, but you should have changed your key features after that, especially when that's your selling point.
Dunno if those opamps are a key feature or a selling point in a DAC. It's already been said in this thread that this swap can hardly affect performance.

But then again:

I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see such clauses banned and manufacturers required to announce any product revision.
I just don't think this will ever happen in our current reality. One of the principles of the free market economy is the assumption that all actors have full information about the market and the product. I don't know if this was ever the case anywhere - when it comes to consumer electronics it definitely isn't:)

The game is rigged, there is little chance it will be different, it's easier to accept that product brochures are not to be trusted. The only hope I see is more teardowns and product internals inspections, like I suggested here. Apparently, Amir had already addressed this in one of the vids, sadly I can't find the time to follow them.
 

artburda

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Dunno if those opamps are a key feature or a selling point in a DAC. It's already been said in this thread that this swap can hardly affect performance.

But then again:


I just don't think this will ever happen in our current reality. One of the principles of the free market economy is the assumption that all actors have full information about the market and the product. I don't know if this was ever the case anywhere - when it comes to consumer electronics it definitely isn't:)

The game is rigged, there is little chance it will be different, it's easier to accept that product brochures are not to be trusted. The only hope I see is more teardowns and product internals inspections, like I suggested here. Apparently, Amir had already addressed this in one of the vids, sadly I can't find the time to follow them.
Basically, when you buy new audio hardware:
Have a decent ADC, download REW and run some tests to make sure the damn thing isn‘t broken and can at least be transparent when playing 16 bit files.
 
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So I ran tests using REW as my retailer was unwilling to accept that there was a problem, even after they supposedly checked with Shenzenaudio who confirmed that newer stock has been updated.
Retailer must be mentally challenged to accept that newer stock has been updated, but still take the position there was no problem.

This is on the SU-9. Clearly my ADC is not as good as some of the others here evident by the higher noise floor. Still, it's good enough to show the problem. Took me awhile to figure out how to use REW to do this lol.

I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but there also seems to be some further distortion (maybe it's R crosstalking onto L?) that occurs after the R channel frequency. I used both R @ 2500Hz and 5000Hz but only showed the 5KHz pic, but it showed the same pattern at 2500Hz.


L only playing (monitoring L).JPG L&R playing (monitoring L).JPG L&R playing (monitoring R).JPG R only playing (monitoring R).JPG L&R different frequency (monitoring L).JPG L&R different frequency (monitoring R).JPG
 
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I planned to buy two M500 Units but after reading this thread I guess I better will not do it.
Do you have a good idea what else could be recommended for a 2x2 system?
It can be two different DACs one for my horns (from 120Hz, x-Sabre Pro?) and an other for the woofers (below 120Hz)
I need DACs with a toslink input with really low jitter response because I have to drive them by a RME Digiface in combination with Roon.
Input would be appreciated.
Thanks DrCWO
 
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I planned to buy two M500 Units but after reading this thread I guess I better will not do it.
Do you have a good idea what else could be recommended for a 2x2 system?
It can be two different DACs one for my horns (from 120Hz, x-Sabre Pro?) and an other for the woofers (below 120Hz)
I need DACs with a toslink input with really low jitter response because I have to drive them by a RME Digiface in combination with Roon.
Input would be appreciated.
Thanks DrCWO
I'm looking at the Topping D30 pro.

Main drawback of the D30 pro is no Bluetooth and no MQA. Bluetooth would've been handy for when friends visit.
I don't care for MQA which is a very dubious format.

It's a bit cheaper though to make up for those lost features I guess.
 
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The Loxije D30 is a very nice DAC with a lot of features but no Sync Outputs and no HD BT. The price/value is amazing.
 

aandres_gm

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I'm looking at the Topping D30 pro.

Main drawback of the D30 pro is no Bluetooth and no MQA. Bluetooth would've been handy for when friends visit.
I don't care for MQA which is a very dubious format.

It's a bit cheaper though to make up for those lost features I guess.
For Bluetooth, you could get a dongle. Topping produces a decent one
 
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For Bluetooth, you could get a dongle. Topping produces a decent one
Thank you all for your input.
Would you also recommend Topping DX 7 pro? It seems to have even better figures.
I just need it as a DAC with Toslink input. It will be hidden so it has to start up with the settings I defined right after power on (full volume, input, filter, ...).
Did you have information about jitter performace at Toslink fot DX 7 Pro? Seems some device are OK in this respect others not.
 
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I bought my SU-9 from Audiophonics, I mentioned the problem and they sent me back to SMSL who is asking me to send the unit back to China for a check! If I do that, I am quite sure my DAC will be lost in one of the many traps I know (customs, different companies etc.).

is there a possibility to check with the version number if a unit is impacted or not by this bug?

Dominique
 

Attachments

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I bought my SU-9 from Audiophonics, I mentioned the problem and they sent me back to SMSL who is asking me to send the unit back to China for a check! If I do that, I am quite sure my DAC will be lost in one of the many traps I know (customs, different companies etc.).

is there a possibility to check with the version number if a unit is impacted or not by this bug?

Dominique
Yes, I had exactly the same response from Audiophonics as well, and the same request from SMSL in China! I've responded back to SMSL explaining I don't like the idea of sending my unit back due to the obvious potential pitfalls (and cost) and could they not provide adapter/cable/firmware for me to do it (as others have asked) but I think I know what their answer is going to be ....

Time to see if Audiophonics will take the unit back perhaps (I only bought it 2 weeks ago).

Your version is same as mine, which would appear to be pretty common prior to them fixing the firmware (which I understand they've now done?).

Richard
 

aandres_gm

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Thank you all for your input.
Would you also recommend Topping DX 7 pro? It seems to have even better figures.
I just need it as a DAC with Toslink input. It will be hidden so it has to start up with the settings I defined right after power on (full volume, input, filter, ...).
Did you have information about jitter performace at Toslink fot DX 7 Pro? Seems some device are OK in this respect others not.
Isn't the DX7 Pro considerably more expensive than the D30 Pro? Regardless, the D30 Pro does have issues with CD-Players, due to the levels of jitter. It has been discussed in the Review thread.
 
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Isn't the DX7 Pro considerably more expensive than the D30 Pro? Regardless, the D30 Pro does have issues with CD-Players, due to the levels of jitter. It has been discussed in the Review thread.
Yes it is but I don't care. The question is: is the jitter performance better as D30 using Toslink?
 
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Thanks's really a good proposal! RME has a multichannel option and seems to be class 2 compatible. But SINAD isnot as good as Topping DX7 Pro but maybe ADI-2 Pro PLUS Topping DX7 pro may be an option. RME DAC for Woofers Topping for my Horns. But in this case my question regarding Jitter of DX7 with S/PDIF or AES input is still unanswered ;)
 

KSTR

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@DrCWO, SINAD @1kHz has little meaning wrt perceived sound quality, and that's already a gross exaggeration ;-) It's decent enough in both units and it is really the least thing I'd worry about.

You could also use two ADI-2 DAC models and keep the DAI feed from the DIGIface (AES3, SPDIF coaxial and optical). The jitter reduction of the RME's is absolutely stellar with the latest firmware update.
 

mononoaware

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Did you have information about jitter performace at Toslink fot DX 7 Pro? Seems some device are OK in this respect others not.
If you would like to have high jitter tolerance I recommend a DAC with adjustable jitter attenuation for Toslink input.
As mentioned in this thread.
It is commonly called DPLL and you have the option to set adjustable number between 1-15 (default is set to 7).
This will give you most adjustment to increase chances of compatibility to devices with poor Toslink jitter performance.

Most DAC’s have this number as fixed value so you might hear “this DAC works/doesn’t work well” with poor jitter.
Recently some DAC’s have adjustable DPLL, M500 (mk2?) and SU-9 are two which I know have adjustable DPLL.
 
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