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Strange measurement. Is my LSR310S sub toasted?

muslhead

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Sorry, forgot to add just in cursive before "delighted" while doing air quotes gesture. And in terms of wifes she's my first too ;)
Just remember swapping out subs is cheap in comparison to the cost of swapping out wives. Try and have just one, otherwise, you may be down to no subs
 

dominikz

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Yea, I feel the same. It just made me want more.

But I've red something interesting on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/musicproduction/comments/zju7c0/_/izy7wyu
I've checked with my room dimensions and 3,5 meters is around 49 Hz (7 meters wavelength / 2). If we count in the niche with a wardrobe it goes down to 43 Hz (8 meters / 2) and gets pretty close to my measurements.
From the text it seems that Mr. Hidley is considering acoustic treatment and room design only; with these means it can indeed be very difficult (and expensive) to address the low bass but they can improve the sound in the whole room and regardless of source.
However bumps in low-frequency response at a single listening position can very effectively be removed by PEQ. This doesn't fix the room (i.e. any other sources or locations might still sound bad), it just adapts the audio system to the room and its position in it.

While I haven't tried to reach 20Hz reproduction in tiny rooms, I personally can't see why that couldn't be done with appropriate subwoofer choice, integration and DSP PEQ.
Remember also that we can reproduce low bass with headphones within the tiny space or their earcups (or within the ear channel itself, if speaking of IEMs).

As I read them, your in-room measurements suggest that the subwoofer works fine. You seem to be getting sub-30Hz response at some points in the room. Note that the sub goes to 27Hz at -10dB anechoically, so I wouldn't expect it to give you flat in-room response down to that frequency.

If it was my setup, I'd put the microphone at the listening position and I'd try to move the sub around a bit and do sweep measurements for each position, to see if I can get a nicer-looking response in some positions. Note that it is better to choose a position with bass bumps than one with severe dips - the bumps give you headroom and can easily be knocked down with PEQ later.
 

FeddyLost

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The chest kick. Anyone who had the pleasure of standing next to a drum set should know what I'm talking about. Properly rocked kick just rips the breath out of you and shakes the blood in aortas. And it's just not there. I expected a bit more from such a big and heavy package.
For such experience you'll need someting much bigger and faster, preferably with 15+" front driver that will move great air mass fast like drum membrane does.
And IMO really serious SPL north of 100 Db.

Not such small 10" with frontal blowhole that better suited for nearfield monitoring behind your desk.
 
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Tupisac

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As I read them, your in-room measurements suggest that the subwoofer works fine. You seem to be getting sub-30Hz response at some points in the room. Note that the sub goes to 27Hz at -10dB anechoically, so I wouldn't expect it to give you flat in-room response down to that frequency.

This "opposite corner" measurement was right next to a wall. I'm not sure if I can get this low anywhere near potential listening positions.


If it was my setup, I'd put the microphone at the listening position and I'd try to move the sub around a bit and do sweep measurements for each position, to see if I can get a nicer-looking response in some positions. Note that it is better to choose a position with bass bumps than one with severe dips - the bumps give you headroom and can easily be knocked down with PEQ later.

I'm waiting for longer cables and new desk, so I can do the rearrangement, proper crawls and some experiments with placement. I paid for extension down to 30 Hz and I'll get it one way or the other. But as I read more and more on acoustic treatments I'm starting to worry about this 80 Hz dip.


For such experience you'll need someting much bigger and faster, preferably with 15+" front driver that will move great air mass fast like drum membrane does.
And IMO really serious SPL north of 100 Db.

Yes, when I though about it I realized I got carried away. There's a reason why most drummers are deaf.


Try and have just one, otherwise, you may be down to no subs

Sub would probably stay with me as it is technically a business expense. But I'm not sure about the room ;)
 
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Tupisac

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Bass impact from toms and bass drum makes much less harm than cymbals and snare.

Doesn't really matter, everything is at 11. Don't approach without hearing protection ;)


Anyway, I must say the whole sub experience has not been very satisfying so far. I find more and more issues.
Can't really describe it, but the whole sound signature doesn't seem balanced anymore. Deep bass seems disconnected from the mid and upper bass. Feels like those tiny woofers can't keep up with the sub, and some parts come from different place.
Lack of crossover control hurts - I think some of the localization issues could be fixed by going to 60 Hz or lower.

In hindsight, I feel like the proper way is to invest in bigger monitors first.
If still lacking proper boom, maybe go with two 10" or 12" subs in stereo, armed with full dsp capabilities so you can dial in the phase, timing, crossover and all that jazz.
 

abdo123

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If you want low end extension you need to use sealed subs that are at least 12 inch or 15inch big.

Anything ported is likely to nosedive under 40 Hz.

With that said, 99% of music has little content below 40Hz. So whatever you think is lacking musicially I don’t think it’s related to the current low frequency extension.
 

Willem

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This is a small room, so you are unlikely to get a smooth response. Since you are using it is part of a desk top system, with presumably a computer as the source, I would create a filter curve in REW, and apply that to equalizing software on the PC. This will only give a smooth curve in one listening position, but that is all that is possible, unless you go the multi sub route.
 
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Tupisac

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You have a small, relatively inexpensive set of speakers with relatively low power. They are meant for monitoring, not realistic club-level production.

I know...

And yet - I was quite satisfied with my monitors up until now. For loud listening I don't go over 85 dB (measured with app) and they were doing fine, especially with PEQ. They just lacked extension.
In theory everything should be great. Woofers should sound better freed from the lower bass reproduction. No more port resonances. Preference score should go up. But in reality it went down. Made the whole set sound incoherent.


This is a small room, so you are unlikely to get a smooth response. Since you are using it is part of a desk top system, with presumably a computer as the source, I would create a filter curve in REW, and apply that to equalizing software on the PC. This will only give a smooth curve in one listening position, but that is all that is possible, unless you go the multi sub route.

I'm afraid it's not that simple.
I'm yet to play with better placement and maybe I'll find some manageable compromise that will EQ nicely. But after playing with room simulator in REW I can already see that without proper phase and timing control whole effort might be futile. Also variable crossover seems much more important then I though. 80 Hz seems bit too high. All this requires miniDSP which is just throwing money at the problem. Something tells me that easier, cheaper and actually better sounding solution is just a pair of bigger monitors.
 
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Tupisac

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I'm happy to report that I've managed to tame my sub.

All it took was a mayor furniture rearrangement, tad more juice and a bit of EQ, but now sub bass sounds nice and proper. Clean, smooth and I can even feel a tiny bit of a chest kick :)

Screenshot 2023-01-07 at 22.21.41.png


Sub sits under my desk at the same distance as monitors. I could've gone few Hz lower by putting it in the opposite corner of a room, but it sounded pretty bad - without miniDSP there was no way to dial the timing and everything sounded like smeared, distorted mess.

I must say that at the end I'm very satisfied with the results and my overall preference score went pretty high. Thanks to my sub I've rediscovered some old love for RHCP.

I guess the topic is ripe enough for closing. Now I'm slowly going down the acoustic treatment rabbit hole - if anyone want to chime in with some tips you're more than welcome in my other thread: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-some-tips-on-cheap-acoustic-treatment.40757/
 
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