Steve Guttenberg says this R2R DAC sounds like Vinyl

[tr1ple6]

Note how fast he skated away from that inconvenient bit of data...

It's the same tactic used by flat earthers, anti vaxers and creationists. Cite a study to lend credibility to your position. It doesn't matter that it doesn't agree with their conclusions.

 

[nscrivener]

There is actual science and evidence to support tubes as having a more pleasing sound.

https://www.kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm

I'm all for the creative use of tubes in recording, but once the artists and engineers have decided on what they want, and delivered you the product, why would you want to go and add distortion? I hate it when people use analogies with live music production and recordings. It's not actually comparable in any way.

 

[sergeauckland]

I'm all for the creative use of tubes in recording, but once the artists and engineers have decided on what they want, and delivered you the product, why would you want to go and add distortion? I hate it when people use analogies with live music production and recordings. It's not actually comparable in any way.

I've pondered this myself, and have had such discussions on other forums. It seems that there are those who don't want high fidelity, but high pleasure, so they'll buy whatever they find the most enjoyable, regardless of what it's doing to the signal. They argue it's their money, their system, and why would they not buy something they like more?

S.

 

[Wombat]

They don't do well in that respect, either. Yes, far more 2nd than a good push pull tube amp, but enormous amounts of higher order odd harmonics, not to mention wretched intermodulation results.

Here's what $350,000 will buy you. At 1 watt. 1 watt.

View attachment 28267

Of course, $10,000 is a step down but at least you might get 24 watts.

View attachment 28268

Not forgetting output transformer DC flux saturation issues.

 

[Wombat]

You're quite right that it's about salesmanship and enthusiasm. I do think that it's possible to be enthusiastic from an objectivist standpoint as well. Just look at the enthusiasm this site has generated for the JDS Atom and Khadas Tone Board.

The real problem is that those who are convinced that they are objectively right too often feel that this is enough and that they shouldn't have to sell it.

Like politics and religion.

 

[Rja4000]

why would you want to go and add distortion? I hate it when people use analogies with live music production and recordings. It's not actually comparable in any way.

Well, not in the same amount for sure, but why not?

Ideally, you could use a 'transparent' (=good) amplifier and then add coloration, distortion, reverb or other effect to taste. Why not, if that's optional ?
We already have bass/treble tuning available. That's about taste and mood.

At least, that could put a stop to endless "subjectivist" discussions (Or not). And be cheaper.
Of course, that may also be the end of the "audiophile legends". And of the business that take benefits of them.
Another problem solved.

 

[PierreV]

Re. The Rockwell article. Notice he invokes the "wife noticed" factor.

I've been waiting for the female cable reviewer describing how her boyfriend stopped vacuum cleaning upstairs and came down asking "what did you do to the stereo darling?"

I suspect I will wait a long time...

 

[solderdude]

I suspect I will wait a long time...

definitely indefinitely

 

[Biblob]

Audacity has one built in under Effects. You can select different profiles or just even or odd. Set it in percent. It isn't a perfect emulation though as it distorts that percent at all levels while an actual amp usually will have distortion levels that vary with signal level. Still useful to see what 3% 2nd harmonic distortion sounds like. Or 12% for that matter.

10% harmonic distortion is pretty hard to hear, in a quick listen. Can't really hear it with AKG K7XX and JDS O2 on music with
Dire Straits - The Man's Too Strong (24-bit 96khz) or Daft Punk - Fragments of Time (24-bit 88khz)
The music sounds a bit more grainy, especially the highs. It also lowers the overall sound a bit, which makes it hard to compare directly.

 

[SIY]

Earl Geddes's papers on distortion audibility are interesting reads. It's amazing how insensitive human ears are to common sorts of electronics distortion.

 

[gvl]

Re. The Rockwell article. Notice he invokes the "wife noticed" factor. I've seen this a lot. Somehow the same people who deride you for not having finely tuned enough audio senses to tell the difference between gigabuck cables will turn around and say "my wife noticed the difference" as if that is a slam dunk test relative to the overwhelmingly male hobbyists. I think the unstated (and not fully acknowledged) idea is "my wife wasn't primed by the huge price and the impressive chassis", which is an admission of something.

What "wife noticed" really means he has a good wife who supports him and makes him feel good about himself no matter what stupid things he does, such as buying uber expensive cables that make no difference. My wife honestly tells me she has no clue, does it make me an objectivist?

 

[SIY]

What "wife noticed" really means he has a good wife who supports him and makes him feel good about himself no matter what stupid things he does, such as buying uber expensive cables that make no difference. My wife honestly tells me she has no clue, does it make me an objectivist?

From an article of mine in Linear Audio a few years ago:

Now, how does (the Clever Hans Effect) relate to the wife in the next room? I had that experience myself, several times. When I would fiddle with some components or circuit parameters, and sat listening joyously to the results of my creative labors, my wife would often notice as well that my ministrations had been effective. Clearly, with this unbiased ear (she knew nothing whatever of electronics or acoustics) validating my impressions, I must be on the right track… or so I thought, until one evening, some doubts crept in. Thinking uncomfortably about a variable that I hadn’t controlled, I changed nothing in my sound system, but managed to get a, “Did you change something? It sounds nicer,” from the next room. A pin to my ballooned ego. How did I prompt this comment without changing anything in my system? Simple. I played a cut from “Jazz at the Pawnshop” and a cut from “Kor,” both very popular “audiophile” albums of that era, brilliantly recorded, but of somewhat limited musical interest. I had fallen into the habit of using these for evaluating my system, but wouldn’t ever play these for the sheer joy of hearing boring music. Completely unconsciously, I was cuing my wife that Something Changed and that I was Seriously Evaluating. And being that she liked to say things that made me happy because of the positive feedback to her, her response to those two cuts was to say something nice about the sound. Nothing conscious on either of our parts, mind you, just a lovely folie a deux that happens far more often than many of us would be comfortable to admit.

 

[dweekie]

What "wife noticed" really means he has a good wife who supports him and makes him feel good about himself no matter what stupid things he does, such as buying uber expensive cables that make no difference. My wife honestly tells me she has no clue, does it make me an objectivist?

Depends, do you answer objectively and honestly when your wife asks if her dress makes her look fat?

 

[gvl]

Depends, do you answer objectively and honestly when your wife asks if her dress makes her look fat?

Fat is the new normal judging from the latest commercials and catalogs, so when I say it doesn't I'm being objective and honest.

 

[HammerSandwich]

I've been waiting for the female cable reviewer describing how her boyfriend stopped vacuum cleaning upstairs and came down asking "what did you do to the stereo darling?"

And then, in scene 2, he finds that plugging the vacuum into her quantum power conditioner lets him finish the housework in half the time.

 

[scott wurcer]

Nobody here notices until I turn it off and they say thank you.

 

[Zog]

Depends, do you answer objectively and honestly when your wife asks if her dress makes her look fat?

She is not asking a question. She is seeking reassurance / affirmation. So the correct 'answer' is NO.

 

[watchnerd]

I always thought the vinyl-effect was the inherent frown-shaped EQ .

Sacrilege!

It's because analog has an infinite sample rate!

Even if it's manifested as a vibrating rock rubbing plastic which jiggles some little wires in millivolt level electrical field....

 

[headshake]

Earl Geddes's papers on distortion audibility are interesting reads. It's amazing how insensitive human ears are to common sorts of electronics distortion.

Ever wonder why our hearing sucks so bad compared to other land animals?
Water monkey ancestors- maybe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_hypothesis

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-25871-1

 

[mansr]

Depends, do you answer objectively and honestly when your wife asks if her dress makes her look fat?

"No honey, it's not the dress that makes you look fat."