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Steve Guttenberg says this R2R DAC sounds like Vinyl

Bix26 said:
I did dig a little
I found this wiki on exciters
“An exciter (also called a harmonic exciter or aural exciter) is an audio signal processing technique used to enhance a signal by dynamic equalization, phase manipulation, harmonic synthesis of (usually) high frequency signals, and through the addition of subtle harmonic distortion.”
It seems they do work as described by the article.
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No, the article is not an accurate description at all, since it leaves out everything on that list except "subtle harmonic distortion" - which wasn't 2nd.

I would not use a wiki source as gospel in any event. Reading Donn's patents is far more enlightening.
 
Channeling Columbo, just one more thing... if an amp has high second harmonic distortion, it will also have high intermodulation distortion. That will NOT be consonant with the music.
 
RayDunzl said:
Fundamental: 100Hz
200Hz is 2nd harmonic, and it is an octave (same "note" but higher pitch)
300Hz is 3rd harmonic
400Hz is 4th harmonic, and it is two octaves above the fundamental
500Hz is 5th harmonic
600Hz is 6th harmonic. It is "higher order even". It is not an octave of the fundamental. It would be an octave of the 3rd harmonic, though.
... and so on.

Octaves are a doubling of frequency.
Octaves of 100Hz are 200, 400, 800, 1600, 2400, etc
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I did not read the statement "Second-harmonic distortion is exactly the same note, an octave above. Ditto for higher-order even harmonics; they are also the same note more octaves above. " as including 600Hz. He did not say "... the same note multiples of 100Hz above." An octave above 400 is 800. We all know that and there is a limit to how technical / detailed an author should go before he loses his audience.
 
Zog said:
there is a limit to how technical / detailed an author should go before he loses his audience.
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Whatever.
 
tr1ple6 said:
Except, his own conclusion in the AES research project he participated in doesn't agree with the premise of the article. "All this, and I couldn't hear any difference at all."
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Note how fast he skated away from that inconvenient bit of data...
 
HuskerDu said:
I'm confused. Have we now advanced to the point of simulating random static discharge between the disc and the stylus? And the hiss from dust? Can they simulate that zap from your friend sneaking up behind you with a ZeroStat gun? And the random skips from the hair that dropped on the platter because you were so diligently trying to clean it? Is the simulation referenced that of a direct drive or belt drive turntable? How do you play a DAC backwards, by the way? I guess it's easy to imagine how to accomplish the slow degradation of a favorite record from playing it a lot... I'm assuming we're trying to reproduce a gymbal-weighted tonearm, and prolly the little reflective bits in the side of the platter so you could fine-tune the rpm exactly... But what would be most representative for most people? Who is even alive that has any reference point for such a simulation?

Nope. Color me skeptical. I don't see how it would be possible to work all that into a DAC. (Ahhhh, the good old days!!!)

(P.S. The veils seem to be a reference to Hustler and I thought this was a family blog. :facepalm:...)
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You missed the biggie:

Is the vinyl-effect in question using Baerwald, Stevenson, Loefren, or the new UNI-DIN alignment?

And what cartridge?
 
I had a Metrum Pavane for a year. When run with an external digital filter It sounded like the best bootleg R2R LP copies I had growing up into this hobby years ago only better. I think I have a pretty good idea what Steve is talking about.
 
watchnerd said:
You missed the biggie:

Is the vinyl-effect in question using Baerwald, Stevenson, Loefren, or the new UNI-DIN alignment?

And what cartridge?
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I always thought the vinyl-effect was the inherent frown-shaped EQ .:cool:
 
HuskerDu said:
I'm confused. Have we now advanced to the point of simulating random static discharge between the disc and the stylus? And the hiss from dust? Can they simulate that zap from your friend sneaking up behind you with a ZeroStat gun? And the random skips from the hair that dropped on the platter because you were so diligently trying to clean it? Is the simulation referenced that of a direct drive or belt drive turntable? How do you play a DAC backwards, by the way? I guess it's easy to imagine how to accomplish the slow degradation of a favorite record from playing it a lot... I'm assuming we're trying to reproduce a gymbal-weighted tonearm, and prolly the little reflective bits in the side of the platter so you could fine-tune the rpm exactly... But what would be most representative for most people? Who is even alive that has any reference point for such a simulation?

Nope. Color me skeptical. I don't see how it would be possible to work all that into a DAC. (Ahhhh, the good old days!!!)

(P.S. The veils seem to be a reference to Hustler and I thought this was a family blog. :facepalm:...)
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There are actually digital simulations of vinyl, like this one - https://www.izotope.com/en/products/create-and-design/vinyl.html
 
Just a casual observation - I'm seeing a lot of ad hominem argumentation on this thread, which anyone of a scientific bent should not find convincing. Perhaps folks like Gutenberg and Rockwell are in part convincing because they stick to plausible sounding arguments and refrain from impugning other people's bonafide.

P.S. before I get tarred as a Rockwell apologist, I'm not actually claiming that I agree with his claims, I'm just providing some advice on effective argumentation technique.

P.P.S. I lay some of the blame for our entering this appalling "post-truth" era at the feet of experts who find it more important to be correct than to be convincing.
 
pwjazz said:
... I lay some of the blame for our entering this appalling "post-truth" era at the feet of experts who find it more important to be correct than to be convincing.
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Making an argument or a review about a piece of audio equipment is pretty much like giving a sales pitch.

Science based people typically aren't good salespeople. Sales is largely about selling a feeling or an emotion; unfortunately, facts don't transfer to that very well. Even though one can include facts in a sales pitch they are just there to add to and reinforce the emotions generated by the rest of the process.

When I was in sales I could sell the crud out of the products I liked because I was enthusiastic about them and truly believed in them. The customers could tell that and that made them enthusiastic about the product. A really good salesperson (or reviewer) can come across that way about every product they sell (or review).

Some science people can get passionate about things enough to pass that on to the person they are talking to but not very many.

And in the end, how do you argue with "I don't care what the numbers say, I like this better."?
 
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watchnerd said:
You missed the biggie:

Is the vinyl-effect in question using Baerwald, Stevenson, Loefren, or the new UNI-DIN alignment?

And what cartridge?
Click to expand...

Bwaaaahahahhhaaaa!!! :D ...Yeah. What he said! Integrating with the other post...

pwjazz said:
There are actually digital simulations of vinyl, like this one - https://www.izotope.com/en/products/create-and-design/vinyl.html
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...I love this. It makes sense. This suggests a new set of measurements? A scored approximation for Steve to use? Obviously, I was never that enthralled with plastic records in the first place. Consumer CD is way better than consumer phonograph players. Indeed, if I remember correctly, the audio snobs of the 1970s were on about reel-to-reel... I had the impression that tapes were somehow fewer generationsI removed from the source studio tapes. (I think of my dad's turtle-neck-wearing professor friends with big moustaches... Or my uncle's chess playing, pipe smoking pals... A time before weed, I guess. Everyone had fireplaces. Smokey and the Bandit. Combing through the cut-out bins in the record stores.)

I really want to see or find the speaker measurements though... Seems like all other components are de-b.s.-ified...?

I love this blog.
 
watchnerd said:
But tubes look so effin' cool and glowy.
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I am a fan of many retro technology but tubes are not it. I know others like it but give me a nice VU meter and I will be miles ahead in happiness than any tube. :)
 
amirm said:
I am a fan of many retro technology but tubes are not it. I know others like it but give me a nice VU meter and I will be miles ahead in happiness than any tube. :)
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how about a tube vu meter?
th
 
You know, I'm beginning to wonder how second-harmonic distortion actually sounds like. I want to test myself if I can be the ultimate tube-audiphile guy and loving it dearly.
Anyone knows a plugin that only adds second harmonic distortion?
 
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