There is nothing scientific about pleasing sound there. The woo amp I have tested had none of that.
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Steve Guttenberg says this R2R DAC sounds like Vinyl
- Thread starter Ron Texas
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maxxevv
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In the days ( about a decade ago ) when Ken dabbled in the arena of photography, he was often the butt of many forum jokes when it came to overreaching theoretical explanations of photography related phenomena.
Doesn't seem like he has evolved much since.
There is seriously almost nothing right in there. I am not joking. Correcting all that misinformation would take a long, long article.
And then from the shining clarity you get what feels like an ice cream headache.
Yeah, I know. My photography teacher called him the “Rush Limbaugh of Photography”. His professional expertise is in television/broadcasting so I’m I little more inclined to believe him there. His audio reviews have always been pretty technical and mostly objective imo.
Actually Bell Labs did research on tube vs transistors back in the 1960. They found that the ear is not very sensitive to low order especially 2nd harmonic distortion.
Now good modern amplifiers have distortion that is inaudible, However much of our recorded catalog is made up of recordings that were made with mixing boards that used the horrible 741 op amps with their slew rate distortion and so on.
Theree is a masking effect that appears in the research about masking distortion, perhaps what many like about tube amps is that they provide masking distortion for hideously distorted recordings that one values musically.
What mixers were used for the Allman Brothers at the Fillmore?
Now good modern amplifiers have distortion that is inaudible, However much of our recorded catalog is made up of recordings that were made with mixing boards that used the horrible 741 op amps with their slew rate distortion and so on.
Theree is a masking effect that appears in the research about masking distortion, perhaps what many like about tube amps is that they provide masking distortion for hideously distorted recordings that one values musically.
What mixers were used for the Allman Brothers at the Fillmore?
Well, I’m certainly not asking for you to write an entire article. It would be nice if you helped me understand at least one piece of misinformation. I’m genuinely trying to understand why tubes sound better to many people, not just me, or gullible audiophiles but the vast majority of audio engineers who seem to prefer tubes when it comes to preampfification, and equalization. Maybe it’s all placebo I really don’t know. I’m not entrenched in any camp so to speak.
Zog
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From the sentences immediately prior to that:
"Tube amplifiers have much more distortion than solid-state amplifiers, but most of it is second-order, which is quite musical. That's why it's called "harmonic" distortion. "
Well, the first phrase in red is often (not always true). the rest of that is incorrect.
From the sentences immediately after that:
"Even-order harmonic distortion can be so pleasant that back in the 1970s the Aphex Aural Exciter was very popular in recording and broadcast specifically because it was designed to generate and add these harmonic distortions! "
Also incorrect, that is not how the Aphex worked.
You really have to dig to find anything correct in this piece.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
My vinyl goes through an ADC/DSP phono stage/DAC/amplification....none of which is R2R.
But it still sounds like vinyl.
So Steve's comment is asinine because vinyl through good digital conversion sounds like vinyl, i.e its transparent.
I guess the implication of the reverse would be that R2R isn't transparent?
But it still sounds like vinyl.
So Steve's comment is asinine because vinyl through good digital conversion sounds like vinyl, i.e its transparent.
I guess the implication of the reverse would be that R2R isn't transparent?
How about this part about even order distortion. I picked this because it seems to be what most tube proponents refer to when making an argument for tubes. Again, I’m not committed to either side, I’m just trying to gain perspective.Pick one section and I'll point out the howlers. That's how pervasive it is.
Even-Order Harmonic Distortion
Tube amplifiers have much more distortion than solid-state amplifiers, but most of it is second-order, which is quite musical. That's why it's called "harmonic" distortion.
Second-harmonic distortion is exactly the same note, an octave above. Ditto for higher-order even harmonics; they are also the same note more octaves above.
Even-order harmonic distortion can be so pleasant that back in the 1970s the Aphex Aural Exciter was very popular in recording and broadcast specifically because it was designed to generate and add these harmonic distortions!
I see you already addressed this part
Take a look at actual tube amp measurements. Since Rockwell chose to use a McIntosh amp to illustrate the article, let's start there.
Just as much 3rd as second.
How about one of RAM's amps?
A bit more 3rd than second. Lots of power supply modulation as well.
Audio Research is an old line brand. How do they do?
Huh, just as much 3rd again.
I can show the same sort of stuff for preamps as well.
Just as much 3rd as second.
How about one of RAM's amps?
A bit more 3rd than second. Lots of power supply modulation as well.
Audio Research is an old line brand. How do they do?
Huh, just as much 3rd again.
I can show the same sort of stuff for preamps as well.
BTW, a well-designed and properly adjusted push-pull tube amp will have very low 2nd and will be dominated by 3rd harmonic. Symmetry guarantees this.
I did dig a little
I found this wiki on exciters
“An exciter (also called a harmonic exciter or aural exciter) is an audio signal processing technique used to enhance a signal by dynamic equalization, phase manipulation, harmonic synthesis of (usually) high frequency signals, and through the addition of subtle harmonic distortion.”
It seems they do work as described by the article.
Fundamental: 100Hz
200Hz is 2nd harmonic, and it is an octave (same "note" but higher pitch)
300Hz is 3rd harmonic
400Hz is 4th harmonic, and it is two octaves above the fundamental
500Hz is 5th harmonic
600Hz is 6th harmonic. It is "higher order even". It is not an octave of the fundamental. It would be an octave of the 3rd harmonic, though.
... and so on.
Octaves are a doubling of frequency.
Octaves of 100Hz are 200, 400, 800, 1600, 2400, etc
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