Steve Guttenberg compares subjective and objective reviews

[MZKM]

I bought Magnepan LRS that Guttenberg highly recommended. I waited months for them to arrive and they were junk to my ears. They worked OK with Diana Krall tracks as long as I didn't mind the reverb. But compared to my other speakers they were super low resolution. Guttenberg will claim they just weren't for me but never suggest he misled anyone. I would have known better if Amir's review had been available before I placed my order.

It's a big gamble buying anything based on a subjective review. You don't have a clue what you will get. Personal taste runs all over the gamut. What you like, I may hate or visa versa. A subjective review has no value at all. On the other hand, a speaker with flat response and high measurement scores is a lot less of a gamble. If you like a flat response you will most likely be happy with it. The problem is we don't have unlimited access to try Hi Fi gear so we go on-line to get a review from someone who has tried it. When the person makes a living by keeping the audio companies happy you can be assured the odds of a fair review are not always in your favor.

Bottom line - I don't use subjective professional audio reviews to buy anything anymore. I look at measurements and find them helpful... but a Guttenberg review is nothing but giggles and foolish entertainment.

What the reviewers listens to is important. If they just listen to stuff like Diana Krall, their opinion won’t be worth too much, a lot of variety is needed, which includes music with bass so some modern pop/hip-hop is needed.

Most reviewers dont touch any music in the last decade, so I really don’t put much stake in what they say a speaker’s performance is like as the vast majority of my usage is modern.

 

[Helicopter]

How the hell would Steve know whether Amir is more knowledgeable than the people designing electronics? There are some members here who might know, but no way Steve does.

Still, I like his content. He is very entertaining and I appreciate his efforts to keep the peace.

 

[Plan9]

What the reviewers listens to is important. If they just listen to stuff like Diana Krall, their opinion won’t be worth too much, a lot of variety is needed, which includes music with bass so some modern pop/hip-hop is needed.

Most reviewers dont touch any music in the last decade, so I really don’t put much stake in what they say a speaker’s performance is like as the vast majority of my usage is modern.

Not sure but I think there might have been some real bass in some music prior to this last decade....

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Not sure but I think there might have been some real bass in some music prior to this last decade....

Of course there has been deep bass in music long before now. The coming of digital audio meant that there was no longer a lower frequency limit like there was in the heyday of vinyl and cassette (notwithstanding some audiophile vinyl releases).

 

[Helicopter]

Steve likes Billie Eilish... plenty of bass there.

 

[Freckles.Mcgee]

This latest one from Steve is just all over the place. The oddest part is hearing him talk about his Andrew Jones interview. I find it scary he (Steve) in all the years of listening to music hasn't invested the time into what these measurements mean. SPL and DB are a very basic entry into understanding how a speaker will sound in a room. I'd imagine when Andrew Jones was asked he was more confused than me.

 

[Mart68]

IME hi-fi salesmen are the worst for propagating bullshit. They think they are knowledgeable but what they think is knowledge is mostly nonsense.

 

[hch]

I'm amazed at how little he knows about the science behind it all. Also it's amusing when he says stuff like measuring during the design has a purpose, but measurements will tell you nothing about the sound quality of the end product. Makes no sense.

 

[tomtoo]

He is nice entertainment. Not more, not less. His opinions i cant take serious. But for entertainment i not have to do this.

 

[hardisj]

It is clear that Steve (or his counterparts) has no knowledge of how measurements are conducted, the purpose, the industry standard (CEA-2034). If you don’t buy in to measurements then OK. But don’t talk about them as if you have a clue as to what they mean and the importance of them in the real world (not just academic).

There is nothing worse than someone with little/no knowledge of a subject who speaks from a position of authority on the subject. It is misleading and disingenuous. I see it in politics on Facebook and Twitter all the time. Conspiracy theories, hyperbole, accusations. Nothing good comes from being unwilling to research what you say before you say it. Especially when you have a large audience.

I also believe that videos like this are a pre-defense initiative. He/reviewers like him see objective reviewers as a threat because they can't provide it and they don't understand it. So, rather than just ignoring it or tipping their hat to the validity of it and accepting that it's not their bag, they instead attempt to diminish the importance. At the root it is jealousy. Nothing more than grade-school envy where one kid gets some shine and the other kid sees himself losing favor so he starts turning people against the other kid. We all went through that or saw it happen. It is no different here. Additionally, IF he truly loves the hobby he should attempt to embrace... or at least live with... the pro-measurements crowd. Instead, however, he downplays it and only drives the wedge further. It's sad because it doesn't help the hobby at all. It just divides it further.

Subjective reviews are easy. Set up a camera, talk, use buzzwords, done. I could knock those out without having to exercise my brain at all. On the flip side, providing factual evidence and correlation of data with what you hear is actual work. You need to have working knowledge of the measurement process, knowledge on the interpretation and the research that tells us what the majority believe. I suggest he stay in his lane and leave the heavy lifting to those who are capable of such.

 

[abdo123]

It is clear that Steve (or his counterparts) has no knowledge of how measurements are conducted, the purpose, the industry standard (CEA-2034). If you don’t buy in to measurements then OK. But don’t talk about them as if you have a clue as to what they mean and the importance of them in the real world (not just academic).

On the contrary, I'm almost absolutely sure that they know exactly what measurements are about and what they mean and how to interpret them. I believe that every word an established content creator says is very calculated, everything is scripted and very well thought out.

It's just that for him to say that measurements can encapsulate the entire experience someone might have with a particular piece of gear completely invalidates the usefulness of his content and is a threat to his livelihood and income. it's not just ignorance anymore.

For example, people like to believe that Christian priests are completely oblivious about anything related to modern science, they're not, not in the slightest. the founder of genetics Gregor Mendel was a christian priest. However, for them to admit that physics explain the origin of the universe and biology explains the origin of human life would completely invalidate and destroy their money making machine.

 

[Hotwetrat]

I also believe that videos like this are a pre-defense initiative. He/reviewers like him see objective reviewers as a threat because they can't provide it and they don't understand it. So, rather than just ignoring it or tipping their hat to the validity of it and accepting that it's not their bag, the instead attempt to diminish the importance.

I pretty much always jump straight here, it's why I have a problem with these subjective reviewers now. Trust. I have none. It's their business and that will come before being genuine and honest with a consumer.

They make money from something which has no validity and it has no validity for reasons discussed here many times. There is no full disclosure between them and their viewers, if they were clear that 'what they hear' is UNRELIABLE and very subjective and they're just giving their impressions at that time for the purposes of some entertainement, or doing quick a/b teseting and giving their thoughts on audible differences etc and light guidence, that would be one thing but hey, we know, that ain't happening.

Hence I'm harsh af with them because SCUM. 'Seeming pleasent and nice' does NOT MEAN SHIT.

Remember, there is a very distinct difference between being a 'nice' person and being a 'good' person.

REAL REVIEWERS would at least set up some scientific blind testing with controlled variables to work some comparisons and more realistically verify their comparisons etc to actually HELP the consumer... (like WHO DOES THIS and WHY NOT!?) But again, nope, too much work when they can just talk about air and scope and sounstage and flowing like a river with vibrance and special warm soothing tones.

Foul people. Stung me many times to line their pockets they have (no yoda)

RANT ;0;

 

[tomtoo]

It is clear that Steve (or his counterparts) has no knowledge of how measurements are conducted, the purpose, the industry standard (CEA-2034). If you don’t buy in to measurements then OK. But don’t talk about them as if you have a clue as to what they mean and the importance of them in the real world (not just academic).

There is nothing worse than someone with little/no knowledge of a subject who speaks from a position of authority on the subject. It is misleading and disingenuous. I see it in politics on Facebook and Twitter all the time. Conspiracy theories, hyperbole, accusations. Nothing good comes from being unwilling to research what you say before you say it. Especially when you have a large audience.

I also believe that videos like this are a pre-defense initiative. He/reviewers like him see objective reviewers as a threat because they can't provide it and they don't understand it. So, rather than just ignoring it or tipping their hat to the validity of it and accepting that it's not their bag, the instead attempt to diminish the importance. At the root it is jealousy. Nothing more than grade-school envy where one kid gets some shine and the other kid sees himself loving favor so he starts turning people against the other kid. We all went through that or saw it happen. It is no different here. Additionally, IF he truly loves the hobby he should attempt to embrace... or at least live with... the pro-measurements crowd. Instead, however, he downplays it and only drives the wedge further. It's sad because it doesn't help the hobby at all. It just divides it further.

Subjective reviews are easy. Set up a camera, talk, use buzzwords, done. I could knock those out without having to exercise my brain at all. On the flip side, providing factual evidence and correlation of data with what you hear is actual work. You need to have working knowledge of the measurement process, knowledge on the interpretation and the research that tells us what the majority believe. I suggest he stay in his lane and leave the heavy lifting to those who are capable of such.

The proplem is they are like priests of the magic. No logic in there statements. But enjoying the good reputation of a priest. In the curch of the money making, magic parts of the audio industry , priests like him are very welcome. They sell the magic.
We both know there is no magic in a speaker or a amp. But if you like to sell expensive magic, you need people like him.
They are amusing, entertaining at best.

Btw, what makes the danley sh50?

 

[gsp1971]

On the flip side, providing factual evidence and correlation of data with what you hear is actual work. You need to have working knowledge of the measurement process, knowledge on the interpretation and the research that tells us what the majority believe. I suggest he stay in his lane and leave the heavy lifting to those who are capable of such.

Well said!
I would only add that with his stance he devalues the scientific research that has been done by people with true scientific credentials who pretty much devoted their lives and careers to demystifying audio and enlightening us with their findings.

 

[hardisj]

Btw, what makes the danley sh50?

?

 

[tomtoo]

?

You know this thiny bookshelfs you wanted to measure?

 

[hardisj]

You know this thiny bookshelfs you wanted to measure?

Your quote says "what makes the danely sh50?". I'm saying... I don't understand what you're asking.

What makes them good? Who makes them? What makes them heavy? … LOL

 

[tomtoo]

Your quote says "what makes the danely sh50?". I'm saying... I don't understand what you're asking.

What makes them good? Who makes them? What makes them heavy? … LOL

Sry my foult typical german phrase translated 1:1.
Was macht ....

It means something like.

Is there any news about?.

 

[hardisj]

Sry my foult typical german phrase translated 1:1.
Was macht ....

It means something like.

Is there any news about?.

ok

no updates yet. I’m still trying to work through other stuff and get it back to the owners. These are next.

 

[tomtoo]

ok

no updates yet. I’m still trying to work through other stuff and get it back to the owners. These are next.

View attachment 138268

Ok,thx. Take your time. Just interested how such exotic things measure.