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Steve Guttenberg compares subjective and objective reviews

Krunok

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#21
Yes. Some have said it's because MLs were not designed for mono listening in the dead-ish spinorama environment, which allegedly favors box speakers with more uniform off-axis response.
Oh, I see. Then probably Revels fare pretty well, right? :)
 

flipflop

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#22
I've yet to watch the video, so I'll refrain from commenting on it.
I'm just gonna post the same graphs as Amir, but colorized. It might make them a bit easier to understand.

ListenerPerformance.jpg

https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2008/12/part-2-differences-in-performances-of.html

TrainedvsUntrained.jpg

https://seanolive.blogspot.com/2008/12/loudspeaker-preferences-of-trained.html

He said minimum required for their trained listeners was level 12 I think.
It's level 8. He mentions this in almost all of his recent AES studies.
 

Dialectic

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#23
Oh, I see. Then probably Revels fare pretty well, right? :)
Yes, along with some of the cheap and mostly forgotten recent Infinity models. There have been informed folks who questioned the Harman findings, among them the late Siegfried Linkwitz.
 

Lbstyling

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#25
The mans a shill. Post a comment on his video quoting any facts answering his 'magical' or mystical comments on speakers etc on his videos and he deletes them. I posted measurements of ZU speakers that he thought were amazing, explaining exactly how they work and what he was hearing...yea. It didn't fit with the mysticism very well.
 

Dialectic

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#26

Dialectic

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#27
The mans a shill. Post a comment on his video quoting any facts answering his 'magical' or mystical comments on speakers etc on his videos and he deletes them. I posted measurements of ZU speakers that he thought were amazing, explaining exactly how they work and what he was hearing...yea. It didn't fit with the mysticism very well.
Audiophiles don't like questions from informed enthusiasts--hence the difficulties that some of us have had on other forums and in our in-person interactions with audiophiles.
 

andreasmaaan

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#28
The mans a shill. Post a comment on his video quoting any facts answering his 'magical' or mystical comments on speakers etc on his videos and he deletes them. I posted measurements of ZU speakers that he thought were amazing, explaining exactly how they work and what he was hearing...yea. It didn't fit with the mysticism very well.
Who are you talking about here? And which measurements of ZU speakers did you post? Thanks.
 
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#29
I attended a session of the same test with Dr. Olive at Harman together with a bunch of other audio dealers. The test starts with low difficulty and keeps going up. The dealers could not go past level 2 or 3. I went up to level 6 or 7 and then gave up. Dr. Olive kept going as if there was no difficulty. He said minimum required for their trained listeners was level 12 I think.

Here is the software and article by the way: http://harmanhowtolisten.blogspot.com/
Thank you for pointing out to the test. It was fun to do it although the software is a bit buggy. I dropped the towel on level 5 while listening on 2+1 logitech speakers :) I'm not sure whether I could fare better with a better setup tough.
 

RayDunzl

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#30

RayDunzl

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#32
Yes, those do terribly in the Harman spinorama tests.
Really? Is there any specific reason for that?
Panels have an uneven dispersion of higher frequencies - left to right - called "lobing", I think.

1546700399657.png


But, they have less interaction with the sidewalls, ceiling, and floor.

And maybe lower distortion where it counts than many other speakers.

You like it, or not.

I've had mine 25 years, without going speaker shopping since. Haven't heard anything "better", but I don't get out much.

---

As for me, regarding the "type of listener" categories, I'd fall into the "failed musician" listening designator.
 
Last edited:

Kal Rubinson

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#33
Panels have an uneven dispersion of higher frequencies - left to right - called "lobing", I think.

View attachment 19930

But, they have less interaction with the sidewalls, ceiling, and floor.
I would say that, as dipoles, they exhibit lobes front and back and cancellation to the sides. That results in " less interaction with the sidewalls, ceiling, and floor."
 

RayDunzl

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#34
Last edited:

Blumlein 88

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#36
Who are you talking about here? And which measurements of ZU speakers did you post? Thanks.
Look for stereophile review measures on Zu speakers. They are basically what I made back before I understood how speakers work. Poor results but efficient with a "unique" $ound.
 

Dialectic

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#38
Rather sadly, some reviewers are losing their hearing, yet they continue to tout themselves as authorities while using and reviewing devices that cost north of $100,000.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/two-weeks-zvoxs-vb20-voicebud

I don't make light of this; hearing loss terrifies me. However, these reviewers must know when it's time to hang it up. Perhaps the continued willingness to review suggests that these reviews have been something less than serious analyses all along.
 

Frank Dernie

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#39
Rather sadly, some reviewers are losing their hearing, yet they continue to tout themselves as authorities while using and reviewing devices that cost north of $100,000.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/two-weeks-zvoxs-vb20-voicebud

I don't make light of this; hearing loss terrifies me. However, these reviewers must know when it's time to hang it up. Perhaps the continued willingness to review suggests that these reviews have been something less than serious analyses all along.
Whilst obviously environmental factors cause hearing deterioration I believe there is a strong genetic influence too.
My grandmother had acute hearing into her 100th year, she overheard lots of things others miss and even heard what was being said in the adjoining room of the home she lived in for her last 5 years.
Despite working in motor racing for 35 years and not always having protection, particularly in the early years, I now have considerably more acute hearing than my poor wife who is a professional musician and really needs hearing aids, though she hates wearing them :(
 

svart-hvitt

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#40
Rather sadly, some reviewers are losing their hearing, yet they continue to tout themselves as authorities while using and reviewing devices that cost north of $100,000.

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/two-weeks-zvoxs-vb20-voicebud

I don't make light of this; hearing loss terrifies me. However, these reviewers must know when it's time to hang it up. Perhaps the continued willingness to review suggests that these reviews have been something less than serious analyses all along.
You don’t need hearing to be an audio researcher. @amirm doesn’t count on his hearing in tests.

Daniel Weiss doesn’t listen to his gear when he does R&D. Yet Weiss gear is held in (very) high esteem.

Hearing is overrated in some parts of an audio chain.

Needless to say, speakers and acoustics are another matter entirely.
 
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