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Steve Guttenberg - Audiophiliac

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HiFidFan

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Plenty of middle aged (to elderly) balding, paunchy, bespectaled, mostly white audiophiles are buying LPs as well. Reissued remixes/remasters of albums they already have -- pressed on thick, heavy vinyl, sometimes half speed mastered, yadda^3.

It's just noise in the great scheme of things.
I think it is safe to assume that most of the unit sales in the 1970s were to "under 30s" as well -- were there orders or magnitude more "under 30s" in 1979 than in 2020? I don't think so...

As far as CD sales go... CD sales are vanishingly small at this point (speaking of "the facts").

View attachment 119376

:facepalm:
 

HiFidFan

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I think it's safe to say we're at loggerheads.
Rock on, dude.

Oh, by the way -- are you buying LPs in 2021?
I buy 'em occasionally.
CDs too.
Atavism that I am.

It's OK. Happens often when one party doesn't understand what the conversation is about.
 
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Ron Texas

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There is a class that buys the hardware you mention that most definitely researches it to death and spends as much if not more time on that, than listening to music. They have two hobbies: enjoying music and enjoying research and experience of buying/owning hardware.

You nailed it.
 

bloodshoteyed

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In addition to Steve's new video, I see this posted by Zero Fidelity. I think also a response to the objective crowd. They scared


watched a few mins of one of his latest live q&a's that he tends tho delete right afterwards and no...
(i wasn't really able to follow all his rambling that was going on, but..) i wouldn't say scared, more like taking it on a personal level, as in being attacked
 

Robin L

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The charts being posted here of LP sales are not including the dominant format of our time, streaming. This pie chart is from 2019:

riaa-report-streaming-numbers.jpg


We should expect downloads to reduce in revenue alongside CDs for pretty much the same reason: why buy something for a lot of money when you can borrow it for very little or nothing? Streaming isn't just pay for play, like Tidal, Spotify, Amazon Music, etc, it's also free [with annoying ads] on YouTube and other sites. And the sound quality of YouTube can vary from very good to terrible, although now that the majors are involved, YouTube sound quality often is as good as a CD or download. Here's another chart with a further breakdown of revenue of physical formats:

RIAA 2019 - Music Revenue.png


Yes, LP sales have overtaken [shrinking] CD sales. The portion of the pie devoted to streaming will only get bigger over time. But LPs now dominate sales of physical media. Of course, the "Music Industry Revenues" do not include sales of used physical formats. The wear factor of LPs is greater than with digital media, so they will be out of circulation faster than digital media. And used/independent music stores usually rent all their media, an open invitation for ripping. A CD has a far greater chance of returning to Rasputin's loving arms than a LP.

There's a pianola playing something nostalgic at Marlene Dietrich's cathouse in "Touch of Evil"---"It's so old, it's new", she says [before noting that they also have TV and show movies]. That's a lot of where the LP revival is at, so old, it's new. It's also more physically tangible than CDs or streaming. And there's many aspects of LPs that make them better collectables than CDs or other digital formats.

This all makes me think of Philip K Dick, quite the audiophile and LP enthusiast in his time. In his books, an older simulacrum would induce the kind of nostalgia that a newer, technically superior simulacrum doesn't. The greater the focus, clarity and lack of distortion of music playback, the more clearly the artificial nature of audio recording becomes. It's much like today's higher-def TVs showing all the low-level details of someone's skin, details previously glossed over now becoming distracting.
 

Helicopter

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I'm not sure why there's any distinction made between CD and streaming really. It's all just Digital. The fact that it's on a hard drive (somewhere) rather than on a silver disc in a plastic box really is meaningless.
Moreso now that we have largely left behind lossy digital.
 

Robin L

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I'm not sure why there's any distinction made between CD and streaming really. It's all just Digital. The fact that it's on a hard drive (somewhere) rather than on a silver disc in a plastic box really is meaningless.
The distinction is "stuff", really meaningful if one has to move from a large place to a small place. In any case, my CDs are now Apple lossless files that fit 1600 CDs worth of files on a Micro SD chip smaller than my pinkie fingernail. The CDs are now in a storage unit.
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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The distinction is "stuff", really meaningful if one has to move from a large place to a small place. In any case, my CDs are now Apple lossless files that fit 1600 CDs worth of files on a Micro SD chip smaller than my pinkie fingernail. The CDs are now in a storage unit.

Oh absolutely. I just mean in terms of trying to draw any sort of "cultural conclusions" out of the fact that LP sales have overtaken CD sales.
 

teched58

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Someone who picks up inexpensive used gear or maybe inherits gear from a family member or perhaps quickly buys something available locally - in other words who focuses little on the equipment and almost entirely on collecting music - is probably not an audiophile.

How would you classify vintage audio electronics enthusiasts?
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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How would you classify vintage audio electronics enthusiasts?

Are they using the vintage gear to actually listen to music? Or is it more of a workbench hobby where they just like repairing and fiddling with electronics?

I'd say the former certainly would fit under the "audiophile" heading.
 

Crane

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I think the issue is like Erin pointed out, it's not us vs them. The preference for each person is different in audio but the issue is when you push snakeoil as a must and magic. As long as people understand that typical "audiophile" does not represent hifi and clear sound. I think this can only be done by debate, facts and non aggressive behavior, you catch more flies with honey.

It mainly comes down to knowing that the parts in the chain have their tasks and shouldn't deviate from it. Your DAC, Amp, Pre-Amp, Receiver , etc should do its job as clean and distortion free as possible. Wires are there to transfer signal, there is no magic only electrical engineering physics.

Now where i feel difference of human preference should come in is at speakers/headphones/iems. While these should be clean and noise/distortion free each person likes different characteristic for frequency tuning , dispersion, etc. Also, if you like a different characteristic to your sound like tubes that's perfectly fine just don't push it as clean.

i think people should learn the importance of objective data to make an informed decision with their subjective take. it's easier to buy state of the art equipment at a great price these days then just add whatever sound you like in the chain.
 

Wes

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while "pretty much everyone who would self-identify as an audiophile reads a lot about the technology," they are usually unable to understand the concepts involved
 

ctakim

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I think the issue is like Erin pointed out, it's not us vs them. The preference for each person is different in audio but the issue is when you push snakeoil as a must and magic. As long as people understand that typical "audiophile" does not represent hifi and clear sound. I think this can only be done by debate, facts and non aggressive behavior, you catch more flies with honey.

It mainly comes down to knowing that the parts in the chain have their tasks and shouldn't deviate from it. Your DAC, Amp, Pre-Amp, Receiver , etc should do its job as clean and distortion free as possible. Wires are there to transfer signal, there is no magic only electrical engineering physics.

Now where i feel difference of human preference should come in is at speakers/headphones/iems. While these should be clean and noise/distortion free each person likes different characteristic for frequency tuning , dispersion, etc. Also, if you like a different characteristic to your sound like tubes that's perfectly fine just don't push it as clean.

i think people should learn the importance of objective data to make an informed decision with their subjective take. it's easier to buy state of the art equipment at a great price these days then just add whatever sound you like in the chain.
One important point is that non-audible subjectivity can push us in the other direction too! My next two channel amplifier may well be the Benchmark AHB2 based on what I've learned here at ASR. It may not be audibly better than the current Outlaw amp I'm using now but I will be getting some degree of extra happiness (smugness?) from the knowledge that it ranks near the top of Amir's list or recommended amps! So I'll be guilty as charged, but who cares as long as I am enjoying this hobby and I can afford it?
 

Cbdb2

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If they had someone else buy that gear with no research, then I call them music lovers. There are plenty of wealthy individuals who have their "agent" shop for them for example and "get them the best there is." They have no interest, nor any time to spend on figuring out what hardware is the best. They want to just enjoy music or show off the gear, or both. We never see or run into these people in these circles. But they are responsible for ton of high-end audio gear purchases.

There is a class that buys the hardware you mention that most definitely researches it to death and spends as much if not more time on that, than listening to music. They have two hobbies: enjoying music and enjoying research and experience of buying/owning hardware.

Well thats your definition derived to fit the people in "these circles". The dictionary says "An audiophile is a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction ". Says nothing about wanting to know how an amp works. Your reading that in. From that definition someone who buys a hi end system by auditioning the gear, because he can hear the difference and wants the best sound, and then just listens to music is still an audiophile. They are out there, more than you think. The term I use for myself and others that are interested in how the hardware works is gear head, much more specific, less confusing.
 

Wes

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One important point is that non-audible subjectivity can push us in the other direction too! My next two channel amplifier may well be the Benchmark AHB2 based on what I've learned here at ASR. It may not be audibly better than the current Outlaw amp I'm using now but I will be getting some degree of extra happiness (smugness?) from the knowledge that it ranks near the top of Amir's list or recommended amps! So I'll be guilty as charged, but who cares as long as I am enjoying this hobby and I can afford it?

did you see the chasing sinad thread?
 

amirm

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Well thats your definition derived to fit the people in "these circles". The dictionary says "An audiophile is a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction ". Says nothing about wanting to know how an amp works. Your reading that in.
I am explaining to you the two distinct type of customers for high-end audio. There is nothing being "read in." You have customers who research luxury products and those that just buy. The latter have utility for the product, not it being a hobby in itself.
 
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