Stereophile Reviews New Klipsch Forte, Klipschorn

[Frank Dernie]

Is optimizing for high efficiency pointless in an era of cheap, high powered amps?

Good question. When I was first buying hifi amps more powerful than 20 wpc were rare, now my Devialets are 1kW/6Ohm but my 2 pairs of speakers are very efficient and I never get anywhere near 0dB on the volume control, it very much depends on the dynamic range of the recordings of course but "pop" is pretty well loud at -30dB and good classical recordings -18dB is as high as it usually gets.
I would say, though, that generally i have preferred high efficiency speakers on audition, but maybe I always underestimated how much more to raise the volume control with the others.

 

[watchnerd]

For a more eccentric review of the Forte III, here is the Z Reviews video:

I know the number of variables are so immense as to make this comment almost pointless (what mic is he using on his headcam, my monitor speakers, YouTube compression, etc.) but they sound fairly bright to me.

 

[Ron Texas]

Indeed, at the Klipschorn price point. For the Forte III price point, it's more like the 4429 (which I've seen very few reviews / measurements of).

Well, I was thinking $15k and not $4k. It's a whole different world at that lower price point and the stuff is a lot more conventional. Floor standers from KEF, Revel and who knows what else plus studio monitors with subs. It's a matter of taste. If you want to play loud, there is the JBL 4722/4722N.

https://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/screenarray-systems-2-way

However, the WAF on these is terrible.

 

[Ron Texas]

For a more eccentric review of the Forte III, here is the Z Reviews video:

You are being extremely kind to call Zeos eccentric.

 

[Willem]

It may well be true that Frank should have turned up the wick on the amplifier.

 

[watchnerd]

Well, I was thinking $15k and not $4k. It's a whole different world at that lower price point and the stuff is a lot more conventional. Floor standers from KEF, Revel and who knows what else plus studio monitors with subs. It's a matter of taste. If you want to play loud, there is the JBL 4722/4722N.

https://www.jblpro.com/www/products/cinema-market/screenarray-systems-2-way

However, the WAF on these is terrible.

Forget the wife, the MAF (me acceptance factor) is awful. Maybe if I put giant burqas over them.

 

[Juhazi]

Klipsch and JBL speakers haven't been popular elsewhere than USA, in Europe they have reputation of sounding "big" ie. bass-heavy. Typical European living rooms are smaller and more reverberant. Klipsh horn comes from era of tube amps, when high efficiency was major benefit.

Emotiva presents a modern American economy-brand with high value. This 1000$ pair measures pretty well in a recent test
https://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-audio-airmotiv-t2-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[watchnerd]

It may well be true that Frank should have turned up the wick on the amplifier.

With a long throw voice coil (to lower distortion at high excursions), is it really as simple as F=ma?

I would agree that my 84 dB speakers need to be kicked in the beans a bit to come alive, but I still mostly listen around -25 dB to -10 dB on a 400 watt amp.

 

[watchnerd]

Klipsch and JBL speakers haven't been popular elsewhere than USA,

Not really true....expensive JBLs are actually more popular in Asia than in the USA.

 

[peanuts]

this is the RF7mk3

 

[watchnerd]

this is the RF7mk3

 

[watchnerd]

You are being extremely kind to call Zeos eccentric.

I tend to think of his material as more of a reality TV show with audio content than actual product reviews.

I'm partial to his cat.

 

[neph]

I mean Hifinews measurements appear quantitatively and qualitatively (possibly having to do with the smaller y-axis window)a bit worse than other sources. Revel's 228be appears to be roughly +-3 db.


https://www.hifinews.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-lab-report

 

[watchnerd]

I mean Hifinews measurements appear quantitatively and qualitatively (possibly having to do with the smaller y-axis window)a bit worse than other sources. Revel's 228be appears to be roughly +-3 db.

View attachment 32497
https://www.hifinews.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-lab-report

The face melting was for the tear your face off brightness shown in the graph of the RFM-whatever model posted above.

 

[Sal1950]

A fully horn loaded system is difficult in the extreme to design for flat FR.
All of today's claimed SOTA speakers are using DSP to do crossover, FR smoothing, room eq, etc.
I'm a believer in the dynamic capabilities of horns and other high efficiency speaker designs.
I've listened to so many of the low efficiency designs over the last 50+ years and no matter how much power you pump into them they never seem to come alive.
I lived with LaScala's for 32 years and never heard anything in that time span that made me want to trade them.
It would be very interesting to hear the outcome of a K-Horn or LaScala handled in an active way ala JBL M2s
YMMV

 

[watchnerd]

A fully horn loaded system is difficult in the extreme to design for flat FR.
All of today's claimed SOTA speakers are using DSP to do crossover, FR smoothing, room eq, etc.
I'm a believer in the dynamic capabilities of horns and other high efficiency speaker designs.
I've listened to so many of the low efficiency designs over the last 50+ years and no matter how much power you pump into them they never seem to come alive.
I lived with LaScala's for 32 years and never heard anything in that time span that made me want to trade them.
It would be very interesting to hear the outcome of a K-Horn or LaScala handled in an active way ala JBL M2s
YMMV

Thanks, Sal.

There seem to be a lot of folks who feel the same as you do.

I'm curious what type of music you listen to the most?

Two things I hear a lot from horn advocates are:

1. They're good for [classic/guitar] rock, especially.
1a. If that's true, what makes it seem that way, subjectively?
1b. What, measurement-wise, might cause that perception?
2. They're good for horns [brass, but also sax], making them sound the most realistic.
2a. If that's true, what makes it seem that way, subjectively?
2b. What, measurement-wise, might cause that perception?

Open-ended other questions:

1. Do DSP-corrected horns, designed to smoothe out the FR, sound less "horny"?
2. If the liveliness isn't due to FR variations, what would explain it? [for example, I haven't seen better impulse responses from horns, and it's often worse than average] Low distortion?

 

[Sal1950]

I'm curious what type of music you listen to the most?

Mainly, blues, country, and pre 90s rock/pop.

As to the rest I don't really have the background to speak to equating the numbers to what's heard. I can only state my experience.

Have you listened to the active JBLs, 30X 70X M2's, what do you think?

 

[garbulky]

The forte's - I've heard the older models. Imo they are not a good way to spend the dough- unless you are looking for party speakers or something for an outdoor venue imo.

 

[LTig]

What the hell is body? Or soul for that matter?

I suspect that Art feels that his system has a lot of "body" and "soul," yet I also suspect that his system sounds like an underpowered, distorted mess.

If I need "body and soul" I just play it. Have both LP and CD. Very good SQ BTW!

 

[Kal Rubinson]

If I need "body and soul" I just play it.

Badda Bing!