Stereophile review of Philharmonic BMR Monitor

[Mort]

They are very beautiful speakers in amazing finishes.

I love the way they look, especially the custom curved satin walnut.

 

[Rick63]

I love the way they look, especially the custom curved satin walnut.
View attachment 518469

Yes! Those are much more appealing to me than the glossy finished ones.

 

[bagwell359]

Yes! Those are much more appealing to me than the glossy finished ones.

Me too, but that's what they had when I bought them, but I did get the black woofers, the white isn't for me.

 

[Rick63]

I love the way they look, especially the custom curved satin walnut.
View attachment 518469

The way the grain is on the right corner next to the tweeter of that particular speaker gives me an optical illusion that there is a dent in the cabinet.

 

[Mort]

The way the grain is on the right corner next to the tweeter of that particular speaker gives me an optical illusion that there is a dent in the cabinet.

Yes! I can't unsee it. All the photographs of that finish do that.

 

[jlx]

I call it 1/2 a tower.

sure, let's use a term that has no meaning or common use instead of the monitor label that is quite accurate

Hahahha I have had 2 way stand mount monitors - that isn't accurate. You don't like it don't use it.

Got it.
The monitors that you call monitors are monitors but the monitors that look like monitors but that you'd rather call 1/2 towers aren't monitors.
They are 1/2 towers. Makes sense to me
Thanks for giving permission to use whatever words that I'd like when I communicate.

-----------------

I can assure you that attributing magical powers to a set of pretty and well made rubber feet will benefit you about as much as the position of the moon does during your listening session.
It is illogical and nonsensical that the performance of a well designed driver's motor structure and its resulting performance is impacted by rubber feet.
The Gaia's did nothing that you claim but they do look kind of cool.

bagwell359:
There are measurements that prove that indeed they change things quite a bit. Nothing magic about them. I don't subscribe to fancy cables (Belden, Blue Jeans, etc. is what I use), magic bricks, or other nonsense. But I used to use ASC traps which are not nonsense, and I built and modified listening rooms professionally, not really prone to 'magic' myself.


There are no credible measurements that will stand up to any basic scrutiny.
I fully expect there to be measurements put up by the companies selling these (and many other products) that generally defy the laws of physics.
The scientific method asks only that you put forth your claim and its supporting evidence. If your data is accurate it will be reproducible by everyone. If it is erroneous or flawed, or as in this case nonsense, the measurements can not be verified

I seemed to have a problem with overly long sustain in the midbass so I assumed that was it. However I got Gaia 3 feet for them and it cleared it right up

Above is your claim that I responded to initially and it is audiofool nonsense. They are expensive and pretty rubber feet that do nothing better then sorbothane, silicone or rubber feet that cost $10
None of them are capable of altering a drivers output so as to alter your "problem with overly long sustain"

---------------

Interesting you would make assumptions like this, but then again the 'sound science' folks are known to shot first, and think never.

and while we are here:


incorrect. The tower is capable of greater output (beyond substantially greater bass output and lower bass reach)
The 1 watt or 2.83V output level (efficiency) has nothing to do the max clean output capability (the max SPL) of any given driver
It's entirely possible that a driver that has 86dB sensitivity hits the wall at 98dB vs another with 90dB sensitivity that runs out of ability at 96dB

There are zero assumptions in my statement. I have dozens of drivers in my collection with measurements to verify my statements. This is all pretty basic stuff for anyone that has any actual understanding of raw drivers. It will be evident when reading properly done white papers from reputable manufacturers when they list 91dB, 95dB and above distortion levels

Towers and Monitors are very similar in efficiency, so no real net volume increase.

Above is your statement and it is false. The towers can hit higher SPL cleanly due to the drivers used.
Neither a driver's nor a speaker's greater sensitivity directly guarantees or dictates a greater max output.
The more sensitive speaker may or may not be capable of greater output. Same goes when comparing any two drivers.
Likewise, as in this specific case that we are addressing, despite similar sensitivities the tower is capable of greater output in large part due to the driver's ability to handle greater wattage input and thus produce a greater output spl cleanly.

-----------------------

The room is the issue, its starts to glare, not interested in pushing beyond that.

as is often the case what starts off as a very general kernel of truth gets misapplied:
1 true. Not much content below 40hz in general. EDM, hip hop, movie soundtracks etc are the exceptions, they can dig deep and often
2 this is entirely dependent upon the tweeter used, it's capabilities and the crossover design. In this particular comparison the "stress" placed upon the tweeter's slightly different bandpass (about 300hz) puts essentially zero additional stress upon it
3 this is entirely dependent upon the woofer and mids used, their capabilities and the crossover design. Changing the crossover point a few hundred hertz may or may not result in an output where the "low mids would be a bit cleaner". In this particular comparison they are not. There are other design considerations primarily stemming from the use of a different model, size and manufacturer of woofer that dictate the final slope and crossover point.

I have no idea what that brief word salad response means.
Perhaps you are answering a different question? You certainly aren't addressing any of my points in the quote you posted

 

[jlx]

To my uninformed 'friend' the Towers use the same midrange driver (2 vs 1) and tweeter as the Monitor. The woofer is larger - but crossed over lower.

Audiofool? The usual 'sound science' ad hominem. I built subwoofers in the 80's and measured a change in Xmax and increase in low frequency output. I do use double blind level matched testing all the time. I don't use overpriced cables. There certainly are lots of 'tweeks' that have no actual effect, but unless you test them, your opinion is just that
.
Here are some measurements (and subjective) comments about the Gaia feet: (dismiss the subjective stuff, but measurements included).

Got this from Google:

IsoAcoustics GAIA speaker feet are designed to decouple speakers from the floor, and user-submitted measurements frequently show a measurable, often significant, reduction in vibration transfer and alteration in in-room frequency response compared to standard spikes
.
Measurements Proving Functionality

• Vibration Reduction: Objective tests using accelerometers or laser vibrometers show the GAIA feet significantly reduce the transmission of speaker vibrations into the floor. This is particularly effective for decoupling from solid, reflective surfaces where spikes fail to absorb energy.
• In-Room Response Changes: Measurements comparing GAIA feet to traditional spikes often show a cleaner in-room frequency response, especially in the 150Hz - 550Hz range, according to speaker tests.
• Reduced Energy Transfer: Independent measurements have shown that GAIA feet reduce the "ringing" and energy return from the floor, leading to tighter, more accurate bass.

Impact on Sound Quality

• Bass Clarity: Users frequently report a "tightening" of the bass, which is reflected in measurements showing reduced peaks in the low-frequency, high-distortion areas of the room.
• Soundstage and Imaging: Users report improved clarity, a larger 3D soundstage, and better definition of instruments in the soundstage, as the speakers are no longer exciting the floor to the same extent.
• Increased Focus: By keeping the speaker energy "on-axis" and preventing lateral movement, the GAIAs allow the listener to hear the speaker's direct output rather than mixed reflections from the floor.

Installation and Performance Factors

• Directionality: The GAIAs are directional, and for best results, the IsoAcoustics logo should face the listening position.
• Weight Matching: Selecting the correct GAIA model (I, II, or III) is critical, as they are rated for specific weight ranges (up to 70lb per set for GAIA III, 120lb for II, 220lb for I).
• Carpet vs. Hardwood: While effective on solid floors, optional carpet discs are needed for heavy carpets, as they allow the GAIAs to connect directly to the hard subfloor.

Key Takeaway from User/Lab Reports
While some measurements of in-room responses can be subtle to interpret, the "reduction in energy transfer to the floor" is generally shown to be quite pronounced, which contributes to a more controlled, less resonant sound.

Obviously your ego won't let you disengage from your stand. Your loss.

Thanks for your continued efforts to engage in and address not a single point that I put forth in my detailed response to your incorrect and nonsensical statements of fact.
Failing to counter a single point I made speaks for itself and it is only bested by that useless post consisting of 5% substance and 95% "things that rubber feet can't do" supported by "audiofools say this and that" statements.
I think the depth of your knowledge is evident to us all.

After 30 years in the high end AV industry it is refreshing to be schooled in utter gobbly gook by Google.
I thought my Electrical Engineering degree had prepared me but you have shown me the light!
I thought that the wisdom, experience and data that my friends (the developers/owners of the Philharmonic speakers) share with me was of value
I don't know what I was thinking when I decided to have detailed discussions with 2 gentlemen with two masters degrees and one PHD between them. Never mind their decades of experience creating the very speakers you own

Sadly I have come to the conclusion that any further discussion with you, likely where I will restate my reasonably detailed points for the third time to no avail, will not be constructive and aid the dissemination of factual knowledge in this forum. As such I will terminate this unproductive discourse.
Good luck to you.

I suspect where @jlx is headed is the fact that there are no measurements. Your post references subjective, user-provided anecdotal information (e.g. tightened bass, definition of instruments, etc.). And the fact that the GAIA's are directional (huh?) makes no sense.

You are correct.
I do have measurements (as I stated) confirming my position. I even own 2 full sets of Gaias used on my two sets of towers. Essentially nothing in that silly Google post is logical or makes much sense. The abilities of these rubber feet are nothing short of magical.
Except for the part about the rubber feet preventing the speaker from moving sideways "by keeping the speaker energy "on-axis" and preventing lateral movement". They do indeed keep the speakers from moving sideways, just like the $10 rubber feet and sorbothane that I also use on every other speaker. Actually the sorbothane is far superior.

This is exactly the kind of useless dribble that someone with no understanding of the basic fundamentals of any science (and I do mean basic) would post
On the positive side of things, that mind numbing post of Google rehashed audiofool vomit did provide for a great laugh.

 

[Chanur]

I love the way they look, especially the custom curved satin walnut.
View attachment 518469

I didn't know we were allowed to post porn on ASR!

 

[Chanur]

The way the grain is on the right corner next to the tweeter of that particular speaker gives me an optical illusion that there is a dent in the cabinet.

I have the towers in this finish. I never liked it in pictures, but they look so freaking amazing in person. Pictures really don't do them justice.

 

[Chanur]

Does not make me feel good they are trying to sell those Gaias for $600 when a set of $20 sorbothane pucks can do the same. Which is what I did.

To be fair if you are an owner they give you a 50% discount.

 

[jlx]

I have the towers in this finish. I never liked it in pictures, but they look so freaking amazing in person. Pictures really don't do them justice.

so very true, so much prettier in real life
I generally dislike very light veneers but I could easily live with that satin walnut

 

[tineared]

Everyone should carpet their listening room floor and be done with it

 

[elmoe420]

In other news, still really enjoying my Super Minis in the garage. Each one sits on a stack of old hardbacks.

I do wish I had the BMR Monitors in here. Debating whether I should add a sub or just upgrade to the monitors and find a new home for the Super Minis. The Super Minis sound great near field while I'm at my garage workbench but just can't fill the space when I'm further away (understandably).

 

[WillBrink]

In other news, still really enjoying my Super Minis in the garage. Each one sits on a stack of old hardbacks.

I do wish I had the BMR Monitors in here. Debating whether I should add a sub or just upgrade to the monitors and find a new home for the Super Minis. The Super Minis sound great near field while I'm at my garage workbench but just can't fill the space when I'm further away (understandably).

When in doubt, add a sub or two!

 

[Mort]

I kind of liked the looks of the RAAL better but it's not ugly.

 

[Hemi-Demon]

View attachment 519606

I kind of liked the looks of the RAAL better but it's not ugly.

I literally just ordered a set of these, set to arrive next week. Of course they restock and upgrade the tweeter to the AMT which has much better sensitivity. Son of a b###. I sure hate shopping online sometimes.

 

[Beave]

I literally just ordered a set of these, set to arrive next week. Of course they restock and upgrade the tweeter to the AMT which has much better sensitivity. Son of a b###. I sure hate shopping online sometimes.

The AMT may have higher sensitivity than the RAAL, but I believe the overall sensitivity of the speaker will be about the same - because it's typically constrained by the woofer, not the tweeter. The advantage of the AMT over the RAAL will be in its ability to play louder without compression. However, once again, the woofer is the limiting factor there too - the woofer still can't play super loud without compressing.

 

[Mort]

The AMT may have higher sensitivity than the RAAL, but I believe the overall sensitivity of the speaker will be about the same - because it's typically constrained by the woofer, not the tweeter. The advantage of the AMT over the RAAL will be in its ability to play louder without compression. However, once again, the woofer is the limiting factor there too - the woofer still can't play super loud without compressing.

Dennis confirmed this. It won't change the overall sensitivity.

 

[ry_]

I agree, I like the look of the RAAL too

 

[Mort]

I agree, I like the look of the RAAL too

I can't unsee the change even though I have the AMT on my HTS.

Now I want to get one of those RAAL bmrs as a collectors item.