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Stereophile doubles down on the snake oil!

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I understand the allure that leads people to cable-mania and the various snake oil tweaks.

I think my sceptical side has allowed me to avoid what I believe to be the most egregious and implausible tweaky stuff. But I still get it.

There’s more than one way of thinking about the audio hobby. There’s the approach that tends to attract the ASR crowd, which is to simply seek neutral playback gear. You don’t want your gear to have any personality or character or sound of its own. You just want it to get out of the way and once that’s achieved, you’re not really gonna think about it.

But then there’s other people who see audio as a way of playing with sound, of seeking something bespoke, of having a sort of creative input, selecting components in a way they believe is pursuing “my sound” - the one that pleases them.

Nothing wrong with that at all in principle. It’s the same type of motivation you have all sorts of hobbies where people like modifying things to make them their own. It’s sort of the equivalent of putting flare on your bike when you were young, that leads up to perhaps somebody who’s really into modifying computers or modding cars or whatever. It’s an expression of one’s, creativity, and personality to a certain extent.

Of course, this impetus can lead to snake oil ideas like “ everything makes a difference” and so imagination starts leading the way.

But in principle, nothing inherently wrong with it IMO.

I have a foot in that old school approach. I like the idea of playing with sound (no surprise given my vocation as a sound designer for film/tv), and have used the hobby to indulge that to a degree.

I don’t really want a cookie cutter sound, commoditized to the point where if I walked into any other audiophile’s place I’d hear exactly the same sound. I like some creative input. I like striving for a certain sonic qualities that turn my crank which are really satisfying when I achieve them. I like the idea of having some level of “ bespoke” quality to my system, modest as it might be. I like coming home from listening to some other audio system turning mine on and thinking “aahh…now that’s my kind of sound!”

Ultimately, I’m glad that I don’t believe in things like AC cables and power, conditioners, and high-end cables. I’m glad that I have not put money into those things and had it to put into other aspects of my system. Sometimes I wonder if I would like it if those things made audible differences.
On one hand, maybe, if that offered another way to play with the sound of my system.
But in the end, I’m glad I don’t think so, and don’t need that rabbit hole to go down.
 
I have a few of observations about the current state-of-play in the "High-End" market.

Early on in this thread someone suggested that the manufacturers and shills might be "getting desperate" and I think there's some weight in that comment. Observation 1 is that there is presently a noticeable decline in spending in the collectibles market. This has affected items from classic cars to watches. This indicates people aren't "feeling rich" right now. There's no doubt that this feeling will have also influenced the potential magic cable purchaser. I think we're just at the beginning of this cycle.

Secondly, the largely male, middle aged client base for expensive stereo equipment is dying out and not being replaced. As I have pointed out in past threads, the customer base appearing at HiFi shows presents as a sea of grey, balding heads. Vendors of snake-oil products now have to squabble over a diminishing number of suckers.

Lastly, a more general observation of the business in general. Now we're a few decades into the "cables make a difference" mindset, it's been shown that to be taken seriously, manufacturers have had to incorporate cable and conductors that fit the magical theories invented by fraudulent businesses. I recall a short exchange between myself and a respected speaker manufacturer where I niggled him over including magic cable in the speakers he was manufacturing. He responded by telling me that if he didn't join in, he would lose credibility in the HiFi retail space. He wasn't pleased about it but was pragmatic enough to give the impression that he was a believer.

As others have stated, the Genie is out of the bottle and there's no putting it back in.

Idiotic_Ethernet_Cable.JPG
 
Just espied this on the Polk Audio forums - thought this thread was a worthy spot to share it.
After seeing this, I figured I should get my buddies and make a couple of new speaker cables. I would get my coat, but as you can see it would not fit...

Steel.JPG
 
But then there’s other people who see audio as a way of playing with sound, of seeking something bespoke, of having a sort of creative input, selecting components in a way they believe is pursuing “my sound” - the one that pleases them.

But if you dare to mention to them that they can achieve all that and so much more by dsp/room correction/speaker placement etc then they’ll respond by saying they don’t wish to use such influence as dsp because it is digital in nature and destroys the audio quality
 
Yes we should be careful not to blame the unsuspecting customer and focus on the companies/businesses that pedal this nonsense.

If one had no idea about cables (i.e. not technically minded) and then visited and read some of the tripe on websites like Nordost and Wireworld, then read "expert" opinions on same in publications like Stereophile, it's understandable they would assume there is truth to it.
True bling. These are gold plated copper. :oops:
Look at this one... whole cable is pure silver;
With a full 8AWG/8mm2 per polarity of the world’s finest Ohno Continuous Cast 7N (99.99999% pure) solid silver in the all-out Octo DNA Helix design, this elegant cable is the perfect choice for those who settle for nothing less than the best.
PLUG CONTACTS
Silver-clad OFC Uni-Term
Of course silver and gold are too soft for the whole connector, so silver/gold clad or plated is used... unsure why the purists don't complain about this bottleneck. :facepalm: ;)

Then we have the marketing BS;
The Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 10 is the speaker cable for perfectionists with elite reference standard audio systems. Supremely transparent, with breathtaking dynamics and holographic imaging, Platinum Eclipse 10 provides an exciting step closer to the ultimate purity of a direct connection. Improvements over the previous Series 8 version include doubling the number of strand groups and upgrading the insulation to ultra-quiet COMPOSILEX 5.
These will set one back at least $23,300 for a 2m pair;

1748222878359.png


... complete madness.


JSmith
 
I like this quote from the article's comments section...

"To dismiss cabling at particular price point is naive until one has used it for themselves. One simply doesn't know until so. All else is conjecture."

So, if you've never tried $23 300 cabling, then how can you know :) Plus, I really need to get me some "ultra-quiet" insulated wires - I think I can hear my neighbour's voices through my fifty dollar pair.
 
As I have pointed out in past threads, the customer base appearing at HiFi shows presents as a sea of grey, balding heads.

Some 5 years ago I would have wholeheartedly agree. Today, I am not that sure about that. I perceive the crowd at hi-fi shows to be pretty mixed regards age, you see an astonishingly high number of people (mostly males) presumably aged 30-50. If some headphones, streamers, active speakers are demoed and the show advertised on Facebook, this demographic fraction will double in number.

My guess would be the number of potential buyers of expensive cable is declining regardless, but superficially it does not really feel like a dying hobby. Fortunately.
 
"To dismiss cabling at particular price point is naive until one has used it for themselves. One simply doesn't know until so. All else is conjecture."
The Norodost SuperFlatLine cable clearly falls in the category of paying more and getting less. It is much more susceptible to noise pick up, and its physical construction is a bit of a pain to deal with.
Both our old and new tests prove once again that power cords make no difference (as long as they are thick enough to handle the currents you need). We expanded our tests into time domain and saw no improvement with the Nordost cable.


JSmith
 
Some 5 years ago I would have wholeheartedly agree. Today, I am not that sure about that. I perceive the crowd at hi-fi shows to be pretty mixed regards age, you see an astonishingly high number of people (mostly males) presumably aged 30-50. If some headphones, streamers, active speakers are demoed and the show advertised on Facebook, this demographic fraction will double in number.

My guess would be the number of potential buyers of expensive cable is declining regardless, but superficially it does not really feel like a dying hobby. Fortunately.
While it's true that the main demographic at shows is over fifty that was also the case 30 years ago. Are they the same older people who were there 30 years ago? Of course not.

People get older, they have more disposable income, they have more time, they can indulge in potentially expensive hobbies. They can go to audio shows at the weekend, whilst younger people are doing family activities with their children and can't just say 'Right I'm off to the audio show for the day, entertain yourselves while I'm gone.'

The demographic isn't ageing, it's always been old. Plus, as you say, you do see younger people - and women - at shows. They are in a minority but they always have been.

If the market share for nonsense is declining it may be that more of this older generation are rejecting it than the previous older generation.

No data for that but we can hope.
 
I like this quote from the article's comments section...

"To dismiss cabling at particular price point is naive until one has used it for themselves. One simply doesn't know until so. All else is conjecture."

So, if you've never tried $23 300 cabling, then how can you know :) Plus, I really need to get me some "ultra-quiet" insulated wires - I think I can hear my neighbour's voices through my fifty dollar pair.
This is what I was saying in a previous post on this thread; for 'believers', 'Personal experience trumps everything - science, engineering, common sense,'

I suspect this is due to poor standards of education. Which is not that individual's fault of course, although you would still expect common sense to have some impact and it probably does with some people even if they left school at fourteen.

Imagine if that outlook was applied to everything. Trainee medical doctors would not be able to use textbooks to learn, they'd all have to start from scratch learning everything by trial and error. They'd still be training in their seventies.
 
I don't know how Colloms and Atkinson can look at themselfs in the mirror each day.
They both have enough background in science to know this is all BS, they're simply whoring the pages for money.
That on-line piece is simply an exert from about a 10+ page article in the June 2025 magazine, Itself a big cash cow written
to milk AudioQuest Cable Loom packaging, sad.
Every year I don't feel Stereophile can lose any more of it's integrity, and every year they surprise me and do.
JMHO
 
With any luck the top hit on google for "stereophile why cables matter" will be this thread
This thread is currently the third link on google
- so not too bad.
 
<snip>

Secondly, the largely male, middle aged client base for expensive stereo equipment is dying out and not being replaced. As I have pointed out in past threads, the customer base appearing at HiFi shows presents as a sea of grey, balding heads. Vendors of snake-oil products now have to squabble over a diminishing number of suckers.

<snip>

I do not know any family or friends anymore who have a "stereo system." Most people have no audio equipment whatsoever. They listen to the TV through its tiny, built-in speakers. (The more knowledgeable, adventurous or monied may have a soundbar.) They listen to music at home on a bluetooth ("lifestyle") speaker and on their phones with earbuds.

Indeed, since we're speaking about culture, at this point I know more people who have books in their house than have a stereo system. And there are (and have always been) very many people who have no books in their homes at all.
 
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I do not know any family or friends anymore who have a "stereo system." Most people have no audio equipment whatsoever. They listen to the TV through its tiny, built-in speakers. (The more knowledgeable, adventurous or monied may have a soundbar.) They listen to music at home on a bluetooth ("lifestyle") speaker and on their phones with earbuds.
What ever happened? I don't get it but very sad indeed.

And there are (and have always been) very many people have no books in their homes at all.
I've a very avid reader but don't do "books" either.
It's always been educational type material, magazines, etc.
If its going to be fiction, that's what video is for. ;)
 
"the sometimes-elusive benefits that can come from cable substitutions"
LOL.
Martin Colloms and the Stereophile crew, still reliably enshittifying the hobby.
But hey, some people like it that way.
 
Indeed, since we're speaking about culture, at this point I know more people who have books in their house than have a stereo system. And there are (and have always been) very many people have no books in their homes at all.
A bit off-topic... In our social circle and family, I know of only one other family (a neighbor) who still has a dedicated high-performance audio system. There are many people I know (including all four of our children) who have inexpensive table-top dedicated phonograph systems or so-called smart speakers (e.g. Apple HomePod or Amazon Echo), but these are just like old tabletop AM/FM radios as far as I'm concerned. I don't count them as high performance audio systems.

Everyone else I know who has a system including high performance audio components (which I define as systems with free standing L/R speakers) has them as part of a home theater system. When I ask, and I always do, if the HT system owners ever use their systems for serious audio-only listening (which I define as doing nothing else but sitting and listening to the music), not one person I've asked in the past couple of years has said they do.

When I ask the follow-on question of how the HT owners listen to music alone, most answer Air Pods / ear buds (mostly while working out, running, cycling, etc.), some (oddly, mostly women) answer headphones, and then usually Apple Beats. When I ask if they listen to music in their vehicles, young men often answer that they do, and it's usually rap / hip hop music, but the millennials I ask about vehicle listening usually mention podcasts and audio books, seldom music.

My conclusion is that snake oil nonsense like high-end cables have a short time horizon, because dedicated audio systems as interest most here is a fast-dying market. Maybe there will be vestiges of the dedicated audio market left in certain geographic areas, but in the US at least I'm thinking a system like I have is "dino audio", and HT is the killer asteroid. :)
 
Lol, I do my listening on a desktop PC and this is already considered old by the younger crowd.
 
The question is -- allowing for its from validity -- is it relevant to audio signals?
No.

As far as I can see the article is talking about dispersion effects due to electrical characteristics of cables varying slightly with frequency. However, at typical cable lengths for audio frequency signals, these sorts of effects are not relevant. You'd need to have cables in the 100s or even 1000s of meters for these types of phenomena to become audible.

At audio frequencies, we can simple use the bulk parameters of a cable (resistance, inductance, capacitance) to determine the effect on the signal, and safely ignore dispersion.

The whole article as far as I can see, is an attempt to use real but irrelevant physics to spread FUD. Far too common in the audio world - sadly.
 
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