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Stereophile doubles down on the snake oil!

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Yet another winded response that goes to great lengths to justify what Stereophile does.

Explain, not necessarily justify. I am not arguing you or anyone should accept Stereophile’s methods.

(I can also explain why I myself find some of their subjective reviews helpful, but I would not argue anybody here should feel the same).


Judging by yet another like from JA, and the fact that you seem to know so much much about and advocate for their approach to reviewing products, and have admitted to knowing reviewers, what is your actual relationship with them (or your identity)?

So now instead of responding to or rebutting the points in my argument, you’ve gone ad hominem.

That pretty much ends any possible fruitful discussion.

S’long.
 
Nevertheless there is a link in a process of evaluating what is relevant and what leads to which subjective impression, or requiring to define the ideal by some sort of reference, and that induces a subjective verdict as well.
Leaving electronics aside since they are either transparent or not by design, we'll move on to speakers.
Speakers are still the wide west, many with ridiculous tonal inaccuracies to appeal to a certain subjective market.
Others will strive for a accurate rendition best they can but still the "wide world of sports".
Since none come close to the electronic world of perfection, pick you poison but today I prefer
something on the fairly accurate side of the ledger and then take the other performance aspects into consideration.
Floyd Toole's latest book on the subject is 536 pages, a bit too lengthy to cover here, (even for Matt) LOL

Stereophile editors and readers might see it the other way ´round, as for them subjective testing according to their personal ideals is regarded as ´honest, transparent reviewing´. And interestingly, the subjectivistic approach (which I personally absolutely do not support) seems to be attractive to a majority of buyers and hi-fi afficionados. Me thinks it is worth a discussion, why is that so?
They'd be wrong, there's little at Stereophile that's "honest and transparent" beyond most of John Atkinsons measurements.
If you asking about the superior numbers of the subjective community, my only thought is "boys and their toys", they just HAVE to have something to play with besides themselves. :p

May I just once again quote how the father of Stereophile felt?
"Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand. As far as the real world is concerned, high-end audio lost its credibility during the 1980s, when it flatly refused to submit to the kind of basic honesty controls (double-blind testing, for example) that had legitimized every other serious scientific endeavor since Pascal. [This refusal] is a source of endless derisive amusement among rational people and of perpetual embarrassment for me, because I am associated by so many people with the mess my disciples made of spreading my gospel. For the record: I never, ever claimed that measurements don't matter. What I said (and very often, at that) was, they don't always tell the whole story. Not quite the same thing."
J. Gordon Holt
https://www.stereophile.com/asweseeit/1107awsi/index.html

Otherwise I can only answer a question with a question,

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"
Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic


It is not as clear. For example, I regard every loudspeaker which is significantly colorating the reverb in the listening room, as ´tone control´ or ´non high fidelity´, as you might put it. Amir and Dr. Toole (Erin not so much) seemingly have a different set of reference points when it comes to interpreting the data,l so they might label such speaker as ´ideal. Who is right here from objective point?
Again on speakers, I'm not really sure I see any major difference between Amir and Erin's Klippel's measurements or interpretations but since I don't claim to be an expert on the subject I'll pass, beyond saying it is pretty clear which builder has made a shot at an accurate product and which have made a market "click bait". Those with fairly major peaks and nulls purposely designed in that even a dummy like me can see. ;)
 
So if I want to know what a reviewer is saying I have to know the reviewer? How ridiculous is that. Which means you have already been brain washed by all his previous reviews and I guess every other reviewer which you also have to know.
Everbody back order 10 years of stereopile and read every review remembering who the reviewer is for each one and then you will find the reviews usefull.

If you’re somebody who is not interested in subjective reviews as a way of communicating about audio gear, and you can get all you need from measurements, then clearly reading subjective reviews is not for you. (Except possibly as entertainment I guess).

I, along with plenty of other audiophiles, enjoy the attempts to communicate subjective experience -“ what it sounds like” - and can find it sometimes informative, occasionally even more informative than one gets in places that are measurement-oriented.

In terms of getting to know the writing of a reviewer that you are objecting to, yes, there can be some more work involved. It’s really not that hard to fairly quickly come to the conclusion about whether a reviewer has a talent for putting sound into subjective language, whether they seem perceptive… especially perceptive about the same type of things you care about, whether they seem to like the things you like or listen for the things you listen for. And also it’s often possible to triangulate their reviews with your own experience.

For instance, there are some reviewers who have written about products that I have owned or that I’m very familiar with, and I have found their descriptions to be extremely accurate to how I perceived the sound of those products. (Herb Reichert and Micheal Fremer absolutely nailed the Sonic characteristics I hear in the Joseph speakers, and Herb perfectly described the contrast I hear between the Joseph and Harbeth speakers, both brands I am extremely familiar with and have owned).

So when these reviewers describe something in a product that sounds intriguing that can perk up my ears and I might seek it out. I don’t take their writing as holy writ; just suggestions that lead to my own investigations so I can decide on my own.
And reading such reviews have often led to very satisfying purchases.

The same can happen among audiophiles, exchanging views on forums.

I have a long running thread on Audiogon in which I described my impressions of many loudspeakers as I auditioned them or owned them. Quite a number of audiophiles have found my descriptions to be accurate in terms of speakers they are familiar with or that they owned and have sought out some other speakers in my list. A number have reported being very happy with their purchases, saying that the speakers sound just as I described.

Not exactly rocket science, but plenty of audiophiles have been making satisfying purchases this way for a long time. (Does this process also mean people purchase some snake oil products? Yes of course that’s one of the liabilities. Does it necessarily entail buying into woo-woo? Absolutely not. One can still get a lot out of this process without having to believe the unbelievable),

Clearly, it’s not for everybody though. You’ve got to enjoy the process, and if one is entirely cynical about it, then it’s clearly not for them.

TLDR: subjective reviews are only going to appeal if you’re interested in the first place, and they’re only going to be useful to the degree you put a bit of effort in. If you don’t enjoy the process, then it’s not for you.
 
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So now instead of responding to or rebutting the points in my argument, you’ve gone ad hominem.

That pretty much ends any possible fruitful discussion.

S’long.

I agree in that your refusal to provide an honest answer to a simple question warranted by your prior posts, as well as your endless lengthy rants pretending to be "arguments," make any further exchange unnecessary.
 
I agree in that your refusal to provide an honest answer to a simple question warranted by your prior posts, as well as your endless lengthy rants pretending to be "arguments," make any further exchange unnecessary.

OK, I’ll humour you for a moment.

I have no relationship with Stereophile whatsoever, aside from being a longtime reader (and all it takes is being a reader to infer from what they have constantly stated about their own reviewing philosophy… it’s funny how you imagine this needs to be somehow nefarious).

So…..?
 
Speakers are still the wide west, many with ridiculous tonal inaccuracies to appeal to a certain subjective market.

No disagreement from my side. But as far as speakers with ridiculous tonal inaccuracies off-axis are being labelled ´perfect measuring´ or ´ideally behaving´ by self-proclaimed ´scientific´ objectivists, it is supporting the point that everything is subject to interpretation, and a matter of personal preferences. Which in the end of the day will give extreme subjectivists and even snake oil supporters the confirmation that their point is just as legitimate as self-proclaimed objectivism.

They'd be wrong, there's little at Stereophile that's "honest and transparent" beyond most of John Atkinsons measurements.

From technical point of view one might be willing to agree. But over the years I have learned that disparaging subjectivistic points or insulting everything as ´snake oil´ that is not complying with one´s mindset, does not make the objectivistic worldview more popular. Rather the opposite, as it shines in a dark light of dogmatism, intolerance and denial of personal experience. Which as a matter of consequence does for many readers make illogical or inconsequential reports and reviews appear to being more credible, as they at least claim to represent personal experience.

If you asking about the superior numbers of the subjective community, my only thought is "boys and their toys", they just HAVE to have something to play with besides themselves.

I agree, and I think from objectivistic point we should see this as a legitimate goal in a fun hobby. It is on us to either insult people and call their stuff ´snake oil´, encouraging them to see every objectivistic approach as dogmatism, or in contrary educate them in a way which is supporting their individual goals, eventually making useful toys their preferred ones, such as DSP.

May I just once again quote how the father of Stereophile felt?
"Audio as a hobby is dying, largely by its own hand.

No objection from my side. But basically he is saying that audio objectivism as an idea to help people's purchasing decisions, died already in the 1980s, and mystic subjectivism is about to follow in the 2000s. We could discuss which fraction is going extinct first and who is to blame, but I do not really see this as a goal of either side.

"The gullibility of audiophiles is what astonishes me the most, even after all these years. How is it possible, how did it ever happen, that they trust fairy-tale purveyors and mystic gurus more than reliable sources of scientific information?"
Peter Aczel - The Audio Critic

Legitimate question. My answer would be, that a fully subjectivistic, even mystic approach is at least closer to their personal experience, their goal of achieving something special with their music reproduction system, and simply having fun. Even if it might look ridiculous to everyone having proper technical understanding and we might be easily tempted to call it ´snake oil´.

The other problem is: there are no sources of scientific information which are widely acclaimed as reliable. It is a cacophony of different design goals, measuring methods, reference standards and estimation of relevance. Dr. Toole said he published his last scientific independent preference test results on sound quality in 1985, before joining a manufacturer in that industry. This was the time when people started learning that whatever is labelled ´scientific´ in hi-fi or being advertised with tech specs, is not guaranteeing good sound quality, rather the opposite. Since speakers were marketed as ´10,000 Watts PMPO´ or ´16-40,000Hz´ people quickly understood they got fooled, eventually dismissing any objective information as irrelevant or misleading.

It is a tragedy, in a way. I wished there would be an easy way to make a more objectivistic approach attractive. The only thing I know is that dogmatism and insulting other´s opinions as ´snake oil´ will not contribute to that.
 
Cables are the new MQA: Stereophile needed something to stir controversy, polarise and generate traffic.

Mission accomplished.
 
...

No objection from my side. But basically he is saying that audio objectivism as an idea to help people's purchasing decisions, died already in the 1980s, and mystic subjectivism is about to follow in the 2000s. We could discuss which fraction is going extinct first and who is to blame, but I do not really see this as a goal of either side.

...
That was not Gordon Holt's only point. While he never walked back his views on subjective experience, he made the point that they should be grounded in measurement. Of course, subjectivity is easy enough to measure, so when we demonstrate that the differences claimed can be reliably detected (through blind testing, for example), and that a preference can be repeatably demonstrated (also through controlled testing), we are still engaged in subjective evaluation, though with scientific controls to make sure that it isn't just self-delusion. That's a way to validate subjective experience instead of flowery but empty appeals to authority.

And that means we don't have to make choices solely on objective measurements, even though we believe that any effect we can hear we can measure objectively.

Doing both would filter out a lot of the woo that makes rational technically aware people roll their eyes, and do so without filtering out the personal experience that rational (perhaps non-technical) people believe are important.

Enjoying spending a lot of money on high-end stuff takes more than objective excellence. There needs to be a little magic fairy dust thrown in. But I think lots of folks will enjoy the fairy dust while realizing that it's entirely mythical if it's presented that way. The placebo effect is an effect, after all, and if buying something that we know doesn't make any audible difference but that just seems cool to use will heighten our enjoyment, then that's what the high end peddles. There is nothing wrong with expensive lifestyle choices, even if Sal (or I) can't afford them, as long as we aren't telling lies to ourselves or others about the difference it makes. Telling that truth does not mean we can't also describe (editorially) the effect of the fairy dust on our responses. That requires more balance than we often see at Stereophile, though they are certainly not alone in that. The loss of balance was what Gordon Holt was warning about, it seems to me.

But a lot of the cable and power cord snake oil is part of a recognized plot to force much higher prices without adding significant cost, and that's not a lifestyle choice. A person may buy, say, a Krell or McIntosh amp simply because they are high-end brands that look really cool and also work well (even though maybe not better than much cheaper stuff that isn't as cool). At least they are buying something with brand value and aesthetic appeal. Nobody, however, buys a magical power cord or USB cable as a demonstration of luxury, but rather because they believe it will make a difference. And we know that the cable industry was a construct solely for the purpose of driving up prices, including by the use of extraordinarily expensive halo products that would drive up the price of regular utilitarian stuff. Thus, Audioquest high-end cables are priced in the thousands, which is a scam, but their cheapest utilitarian cables are priced in the hundreds, which is in my view even more of a scam, given that wholly competent cables can be had for prices in the tens. No journalistic effort, however editorial, should participate in such schemes, and the advertising dollars aren't worth it.

Rick "we all have our lines that can't be crossed" Denney
 
But as far as speakers with ridiculous tonal inaccuracies off-axis are being labelled ´perfect measuring´ or ´ideally behaving´ by self-proclaimed ´scientific´ objectivists, it is supporting the point that everything is subject to interpretation, and a matter of personal preferences. Which in the end of the day will give extreme subjectivists and even snake oil supporters the confirmation that their point is just as legitimate as self-proclaimed objectivism.
Link or evidence please. Who did this?

From technical point of view one might be willing to agree. But over the years I have learned that disparaging subjectivistic points or insulting everything as ´snake oil´ that is not complying with one´s mindset, does not make the objectivistic worldview more popular. Rather the opposite, as it shines in a dark light of dogmatism, intolerance and denial of personal experience. Which as a matter of consequence does for many readers make illogical or inconsequential reports and reviews appear to being more credible, as they at least claim to represent personal experience.
It is a tragedy, in a way. I wished there would be an easy way to make a more objectivistic approach attractive. The only thing I know is that dogmatism and insulting other´s opinions as ´snake oil´ will not contribute to that.
You're casting a wide net there about what objectivists do wrong or you claim we do wrong. Who calls everything snake-oil that isn't?
Snake-oil or just BS myths, making claims of audible differences without the use of any type of control beyond "I hear it, so it is so" has ruined
the search for higher Hi Fi and turned it into a circus. When trying to discuss the matter we get crap responses like "I don't listen to graphs" "I listen
to music, not numbers" and so much more. :facepalm:
 
That was not Gordon Holt's only point. While he never walked back his views on subjective experience, he made the point that they should be grounded in measurement. Of course, subjectivity is easy enough to measure, so when we demonstrate that the differences claimed can be reliably detected (through blind testing, for example), and that a preference can be repeatably demonstrated (also through controlled testing), we are still engaged in subjective evaluation, though with scientific controls to make sure that it isn't just self-delusion. That's a way to validate subjective experience instead of flowery but empty appeals to authority.

And that means we don't have to make choices solely on objective measurements, even though we believe that any effect we can hear we can measure objectively.

Doing both would filter out a lot of the woo that makes rational technically aware people roll their eyes, and do so without filtering out the personal experience that rational (perhaps non-technical) people believe are important.

Enjoying spending a lot of money on high-end stuff takes more than objective excellence. There needs to be a little magic fairy dust thrown in. But I think lots of folks will enjoy the fairy dust while realizing that it's entirely mythical if it's presented that way. The placebo effect is an effect, after all, and if buying something that we know doesn't make any audible difference but that just seems cool to use will heighten our enjoyment, then that's what the high end peddles. There is nothing wrong with expensive lifestyle choices, even if Sal (or I) can't afford them, as long as we aren't telling lies to ourselves or others about the difference it makes. Telling that truth does not mean we can't also describe (editorially) the effect of the fairy dust on our responses. That requires more balance than we often see at Stereophile, though they are certainly not alone in that. The loss of balance was what Gordon Holt was warning about, it seems to me.

But a lot of the cable and power cord snake oil is part of a recognized plot to force much higher prices without adding significant cost, and that's not a lifestyle choice. A person may buy, say, a Krell or McIntosh amp simply because they are high-end brands that look really cool and also work well (even though maybe not better than much cheaper stuff that isn't as cool). At least they are buying something with brand value and aesthetic appeal. Nobody, however, buys a magical power cord or USB cable as a demonstration of luxury, but rather because they believe it will make a difference. And we know that the cable industry was a construct solely for the purpose of driving up prices, including by the use of extraordinarily expensive halo products that would drive up the price of regular utilitarian stuff. Thus, Audioquest high-end cables are priced in the thousands, which is a scam, but their cheapest utilitarian cables are priced in the hundreds, which is in my view even more of a scam, given that wholly competent cables can be had for prices in the tens. No journalistic effort, however editorial, should participate in such schemes, and the advertising dollars aren't worth it.

Rick "we all have our lines that can't be crossed" Denney
Flooby dust.
 
ChatGBT finally settles the issue for once and for all:
========================================================

Q: In the world of high end audio, many people pay enormous amounts for power cables, electrical outlets and similar "tweaks." Yet no one has produced any scientific or measurable evidence that such things improve audio, reduce distortion or much else. So how, for example, is is possible to justify paying $3000 for a power cord?

ChatGBT A: You're absolutely right to be skeptical—this is one of the most contentious issues in high-end audio. The short answer is that there is no scientifically validated justification for spending $3,000 on a power cord in terms of objective improvements in sound quality. Let’s unpack why these products persist and why some people continue to pay for them:


1. Placebo Effect and Expectation Bias

Humans are highly suggestible when it comes to perception—especially in something as subjective and emotionally tied as music. When someone spends a large amount of money on a cable, they are more likely to believe it improves their system due to cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias.

If you expect it to sound better, it often does, to you—even if no measurable change occurred.


2. Marketing and Audiophile Lore

The audio industry is rife with pseudoscientific marketing:
  • Claims of “reduced microphonic distortion,” “skin effect control,” or “oxygen-free cryogenically treated copper” are used to justify the cost.
  • These terms often have some basis in physics, but the magnitude of their effect is vanishingly small or irrelevant at audio frequencies and power levels.
3. Subjective Listening Culture

High-end audio is largely subjective. Reviews are often based on listening impressions in uncontrolled environments. Rarely are these tweaks tested under double-blind conditions, which would remove expectation bias. When they are, the effects typically disappear.

4. Luxury Signaling and Aesthetic Value

For many buyers, a $3,000 power cord is less about performance and more about:
  • Owning the "best" or rarest
  • Aesthetics and build quality
  • Prestige and status among peers
This is analogous to a luxury watch: a $50 Casio tells time more accurately than a $20,000 Rolex, but buyers of the Rolex aren’t doing it for timekeeping precision.

5. False Equivalence with Other Components

Some argue, “If better speakers and amps sound better, maybe better cables do too.” But the problem is that:
  • Speakers and amps produce large, measurable differences.
  • Power cords, especially beyond basic shielding and proper gauge, have virtually no influence unless a system has serious grounding or EMI issues (in which case the solution is usually electrical—not audiophile gear).
6. Lack of Peer-Reviewed Evidence

There is no reputable, peer-reviewed research showing that exotic power cords or outlets improve signal-to-noise ratio, dynamic range, distortion, or frequency response in audio systems under proper electrical conditions. If there were meaningful differences, they would be measurable.
Summary: Why Do People Still Buy Them?

Because high-end audio is not always about sound—it’s often about experience, exclusivity, and belief. And belief, especially when paired with money and identity, is a powerful force.

If you're interested, we can look at blind test studies or technical breakdowns that debunk these products in more detail.
 
And that means we don't have to make choices solely on objective measurements, even though we believe that any effect we can hear we can measure objectively.

Reasonable point, but exactly that is what got lost somewhere on the way in the 1980s (or 1990s). Objective data and measurements back then were in many cases either misinterpreted, overestimated in their capability of predicting sound quality, or outright misused for bad marketing. So people in masses walked away from the idea that any effect can be measured objectively, laying the ground for widespread belief in some sort of magic. To win them back for objectivism takes more than calling their beliefs ´snake oil´, in my understanding.

Nobody, however, buys a magical power cord or USB cable as a demonstration of luxury, but rather because they believe it will make a difference.

The belief is one thing. The will to own something others do not have or cannot afford, that is setting their systems apart from the average, is another aspect. It is like having gold crust on your steak or a Tourbillon in your mechanical wristwatch. Pure snobbism. You can despise it, you can decry it, but the motivation behind it is immune to being labelled ´snake oil´.

I by no means intend to defend the high end cable industry, the audio press or overpriced stuff. Just trying to explain which strategies of debunking this are futile in my understanding.

You're casting a wide net there about what objectivists do wrong or you claim we do wrong.

No, I tried to provide some understanding why objectivism already failed decades ago, and own experience what works best when trying to win people back for objectivistic views on audio. And one aspect of this was that measurements back then were not in line with what people experienced themselves. Can provide you with examples via private message, as I do not want to engage in off-topic postings here.

making claims of audible differences without the use of any type of control beyond "I hear it, so it is so" has ruined
the search for higher Hi Fi and turned it into a circus.

Maybe, but why was this so effective, or even possible? My answer would be: Probably because people had lost trust in objective data and measurements beforehand, or simply were not interested as they see the whole thing as a fun hobby.
 
It's fairly simple (though perhaps not this simple) about writers for audio magazines/websites*:

if writers who write nonsense about audio actually believe what they've written, they are either ignorant or deluded (e..g Jason Serinus)

if they do not actually believe the audio nonsense they have written, they are cynics/career opportunists. (e.g. <redacted>)

if such writers happen to also write sense about audio, it's unlikely to be anything that a source more devoted to audio sense (e.g. ASR) hasn't already covered, but if it is, great!


Writers in this milieu who consistently write sense rather than nonsense, should be treasured. (e.g., Kal)


*I guess this goes for Youtube content creators, too
 
Which as a matter of consequence does for many readers make illogical or inconsequential reports and reviews appear to being more credible, as they at least claim to represent personal experience.
Have you ever walked down a woodland path, and seen a person up ahead - only to realise when you get closer that the person is a sunlit tree trunk.

(Or similar misinterpretations of the information coming in from our senses. "Did you hear that? I thought I heard..." or' "what did you say" - "Me? Nothing" Etc ad infinitum.)

Personal experience is inherently unreliable.
 
I have a long running thread on Audiogon in which I described my impressions of many loudspeakers as I auditioned them or owned them. Quite a number of audiophiles have found my descriptions to be accurate in terms of speakers they are familiar with or that they owned and have sought out some other speakers in my list. A number have reported being very happy with their purchases, saying that the speakers sound just as I described.
Mat, I like you, I think you are a nice guy, but still...we are in the same endless discussion.... Does sighted impressions has any relevance at all? This is still the most fundamental question in the audiophile community. To answer the question we need data, no opinions. Why after decades of this, there is not a plethora subjective advocates showing blind test result, confirming subjective impressions are at least useful? why the lack of confirmation? if you believe you loudspeakers assessment are good, why you do not take the time for blind testing, show us the data and shut up all the people that roll their eyes when confronted to any type of subjective opinion. why not become a subjective legend?
 
Mat, I like you, I think you are a nice guy, but still...we are in the same endless discussion.... Does sighted impressions has any relevance at all? This is still the most fundamental question in the audiophile community. To answer the question we need data, no opinions. Why after decades of this, there is not a plethora subjective advocates showing blind test result, confirming subjective impressions are at least useful? why the lack of confirmation? if you believe you loudspeakers assessment are good, why you do not take the time for blind testing, show us the data and shut up all the people that roll their eyes when confronted to any type of subjective opinion. why not become a subjective legend?

Well said. The keywords here are anecdotal evidence. There is nothing wrong with stating personal impressions of audio equipment, whether it comes to performance or aesthetics. In fact, these impressions are part of an audiophile ritual, which many follow in their pursuit of acoustic perfection, and for which they naturally seek comraderie and confirmation. But, as Deming said (in a different domain) "without data, you're just another person with an opinion." Also, the traditional concept of "professional" critique of artistic performance (which is where the reviewers' evaluations are rooted) does not extend to equipment which has readily measurable physical characteristics.
 
...
The belief is one thing. The will to own something others do not have or cannot afford, that is setting their systems apart from the average, is another aspect. It is like having gold crust on your steak or a Tourbillon in your mechanical wristwatch. Pure snobbism. You can despise it, you can decry it, but the motivation behind it is immune to being labelled ´snake oil´.
...
I've written about the false equivalency with watch enthusiasts before. Nobody buys a tourbillon for the reasons tourbillons were invented a coupla hundred years ago. They were invented because pocket watches may sit in the pocket with the crown up or sideways, and those two positions (plus other possible positions) cause any error in the poise of the balance or any anomaly in the way the hairspring hangs or any slack in the balance arbor jewels to change slightly the timekeeping accuracy of the balance. The tourbillon, by using the clockworks to drive the balance assembly to rotate once per minute, evenly spent the same amount of time in every position, averaging those errors out consistently.

Even mechanical watches don't need or benefit from tourbillons any more.

But here's the point: Nobody believes that they do. Even the guys will to spend five or six figures for a high-end watch with a tourbillon don't for a second believe it will affect accuracy in any important way. They just think the machine that works that way is cool and worth admiring. It's the same with most any other traditional advantage of this or that in the mechanical watch world--whatever legitimate reason there was to come up with the feature back in the day is really no longer needed. Even 130 years ago, when the railroad watch standard was established that required high accuracy as a matter of life safety watches so certified did not use tourbillons. But they certainly did have many extra jewels to reduce movement drag and wear even at the margins. Railroad-grade (and approved) pocket watches were required to run within 15 seconds a week, and they were rigorously inspected to make sure they stayed that way.

And nobody in the watch world believes that features like tourbillons have any effect even if they don't know or care one bit about how the things work. They just think they are cool to look at and represent a level of craft higher than regular mechanical watches. Buying them is more about making an artistic statement than making a technical choice, because watches share quite a lot with jewelry in function. It is not usually snobbishness that drives such choices by my observation, though snobs exist at all economic levels.

(Tourbillons are just one example from the watch world--there are dozens of others.)

But in the audio world, there are deep enthusiasts who believe they hear a difference when they install a boutique power cable. Even when they have enough technical education to know better, they believe it. They believe it because the "experts" have been saying it over and over again for decades. There are items even sillier than multi-thousand-dollar power cables: grounding boxes (literally a box filled with dirt), green highlighter on (the label side of) CD's, and on and on.

And they don't believe it because they prefer coloration. JA once said at a conference that the market would probably prefer amps with a healthy dose of second-harmonic distortion, and he knows what he's talking about. But those who might have that preference will be told that what they are hearing is more accurate and more true to the music, when it is neither closer to the electrical signal or even close to what the real instruments sound like. They are trading one distortion for another.

It turns out that those measurements back in the magazines of the 70's and 80's weren't bad but they weren't actually complete--we know more now than we did then and software-based measurement is far more powerful now. For example, I posted a test review of a Holman preamp that I just refurbished, using 80's technology to measure it. There was no fast fourier transform technique for spectral analysis--that requires digital sampling (the FFT is a computational convenience for digital data). In those days, people would run an oscillator sweep and write down the distortion at frequent intervals as they did so. It worked, but it didn't tell the whole story. It would be difficult for me to do a two-tone IMD test with a bench distortion analyzer, let alone a multitone test like Amir performs. Those old magazines didn't get it wrong, but how they did things weren't going to form the foundation for a boutique industry that catered to a high-spending wealthy clientele, and that was the explicit strategy undertaken by the first purveyor of boutique cables, by all accounts.

The problem is that even the experts now believe they hear stuff and are unwilling to test their ability to detect those attributes they describe using controlled testing. I'd like to see carefully controlled comparisons during the subjective review, which would apply science without making it any less subjective. Do that in addition to the objective performance measurements. But that runs the risk of bringing the whole house of cards down.

Rick "has no problem with people buying boutique items, but has real problems with making stuff up to manipulate them into doing so" Denney
 
So objective audiogeeks use measurements to determine/assist in product selection (with other stuff like form factor, features, functions,looks etc also playing a role).

And as part of that critique of measurements, we also look at the method(s) used and the measurement equipment used (with AP's being the gold standard).

Now lets assume that there is some validity in subject reviews (either from the established players like Stereophile, Absolute Sound etc or from the dozens of Youtube newbie chancers looking to make a quick buck).

So what are the instrument(s) they use during these reviews: their ears and their rooms.

But as far as I have seen, no reviewer posts regular, updated FULL range hearing tests and room response sweeps at a minimum. But also what about ambient noise (say a reviewer in the middle of NY) or power supply metrics (which might show poor power delivery ***).

Many of the establishment reviewers are old gits like me who will have rolled off hearing (mines good till 13.5k then drops off a cliff) and potentially uneven hearing response between ears (mine is good in this regard).

How can some old git pontificate about some new amp/cable/dac's amazing high frequency delivery when they cant hear above 12k?

The ideal subjective reviewer is a 10 year old (i.e. perfect human hearing) but unfortunately they wont have the language skills or experience to be a decent audio reviewer.

Peter

*** It always sticks in my mind after Micheal Fremer significantly upgrade his power delivery "stuff" that during a review of this he freely admitted many of his reviews over the previous 15 years had been tainted by his previous poor power (amps with buzzes that couldnt be resolved etc)

Surely, if your job is an audio reviewer that you ensure everything is as perfect as possible so you can hear subtle differences, which includes the room and your incoming power? (I at least give Rob Harley some points in this regard...he went the extra mile to ensure his room and power were as perfect as possible)

The reasons I moved to a specific rural place when my wife and I built our "forever" home in 2008 was that it has a major substation visible from a nearby hill top, a lack of industrial power users between me and the power station and a very low ambient noise level so that my dedicated listening room was truely a quiet space.

Even got three phase power with one phase dedicated to my listening room...dont know if that matters but it wasn't a huge incremental cost. Had to fight to get a separate earth stake for that phase but did in the end.
 
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