Good video that, thanks.
Reminded me of the old 'Open University' lectures that we'd watch on BBC2 when we got back from the pub after midnight.
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Stereophile doubles down on the snake oil!
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Reminded me of the old 'Open University' lectures that we'd watch on BBC2 when we got back from the pub after midnight.
Also, the theoretical infinite resolution of analog media is well limited by the technical limits (mechanical limits with vinyl). Probably more limited than digital media are.
And now back to stereophile…
Certainly. Vinyl corresponds to approximately 36 kHz sample rate (no digital low-pass filter of course) and 11 bits per sample, with severe THD. The echo chamber lives on in a revived post by Michael Fremer, where he doubles down on his subjective reality only a few days ago at stereophile.com
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Alexander Gödde
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God, Michal Fremer. Halfway through the piece he proudly gives us part of a recent ad hominem attack by him in a commentsd section against somebody who dared doubt the perfection of vinyl. Classy! The rest is his usual mix of tangentially related anecdotes, arguing against straw men, insults to the morals and cognitive abilities of critics, and appeals to instinct over science ("How humans survived without double-blind tests of tiger attacks, I'll never know."). Disgusting, really. Fitting, though, for somebody who, by all accounts, is generally an extremely unpleasant human being.
Agree. 44.1kSa/sec CD captures everything out to a bit past 20kHz. Going higher than that would not appreciated by human hearing's capabilities. so there's no point in doing so. The noisy graininess of vinyl limits its ability to capture fine nuances in the sound. Then, if vinyl could capture those nuances, it would be a trick to find a cartridge that could pick them up and not wear them down after a few dozen or so plays. Still, it's got no right to sound as good as it does in spite of those limitations.
No, but just like a good soldier, I do my part.
It is amazing that some people, myself included - have not abandoned Vinyl, due to Fremer and his musings. If I see a TT given a review from this guy - I'm already disinterested, particularly since Fremer was paid to do so - which is added to the price, and I'm not paying for the likes of him.
HalSF
Active Member
Those numbers seem bad! Vinyl playback must sound horrible!
Except in my experience it sounds pretty okay with decent gear and sources. My listening is probably about 75% digital and 25% vinyl and I experience no jarring and unpleasant falloff in musical pleasure and hi-fi enjoyment moving from digital to LP. Of course no pesky clicks or pops or audible noise floor with CD/files/streaming….
Clearly digital measures better and is wonderful audio technology, and arguments that ineffable vinyl magic equals or is better than digital’s fidelity and clean sound are pretty silly. That side of Fremer’s deal does have powerful carnival barker/snake-oil salesman woo woo overtones. On the engineering, technical design and hardware performance side of vinyl, though, Fremer is is a valuable resource whose generally objective orientation doesn’t match his portrait as detestable ASR-world apostate.
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Funny Mr @rdenney how you can applaud this post with a"like" but yet attack me for not letting Mikey get away with his BS here?
That article is from 10 years ago.
And what he says is correct, since, 10 years on, vinyl sales continue to increase year on year. Still a niche, granted, but it was not a fad. It wasn't hipsters buying a few then losing interest.
Despite all its faults it's still good enough to sound 'good.' And the non-sonic aspects are attractive. The artwork, the ritual etc.
Yes, unless there is a lot of bass like metal music.
Agree that bass response and pitch stability are two of the biggest issues, along with end of side distortion.
They are the main reasons I packed it in. But I was taught by the pros when assessing sound quality of anything, 'Listen for what it does wrong, not what it does right.' Most people aren't so picky.
If it's not a long lasting fad,what is it?
Its definitely second class in sound quality,
Its hugely a PITA to use and maintain.
Enormously more expensive than CD-Digital.
So what would you call it if not a fad or a hugely successful snake-oil marketing plan?
High End expensive cables have also been another very successful market that makes zero common sense to invest in for music listening.
Not everything good is common sense though is it? What sort of world would it be if common sense ruled everything? Very bland, I'd expect.If it's not a long lasting fad,what is it?
Its definitely second class in sound quality,
Its hugely a PITA to use and maintain.
Enormously more expensive than CD-Digital.
So what would you call it if not a fad or a hugely successful snake-oil marketing plan?
High End expensive cables have also been another very successful market that makes zero common sense to invest in for music listening.
It's gone on too long to be a fad, by any sensible definition of that word.
Yes it is second class sound quality but not by enough to really matter.
Yes it is a pain in the arse and more expensive (although CD was more expensive for a long time and still caught on).
I'd call it an indulgence, maybe a fetish, maybe a cult - or possibly all three. Not a fad, since fads don't last decades.
I don't agree it's comparable to high end cables. I can see the attraction of vinyl for the non-sonic reasons - and plenty of the members here use vinyl whilst being totally aware that it's second class sound quality - whereas the expensive cable market just relies entirely on ignorance.
You've just described just about any hobby.If it's not a long lasting fad,what is it?
Its definitely second class in sound quality,
Its hugely a PITA to use and maintain.
Enormously more expensive than CD-Digital.
So what would you call it if not a fad or a hugely successful snake-oil marketing plan?
High End expensive cables have also been another very successful market that makes zero common sense to invest in for music listening.
Vintage cars?
Motor cycles?
Antique furniture?
The whole point of many hobbies is that they are a PITA to use and maintain. That's the fun!
S.
Heart wants what heart wants. Why should we select our audio gear solely by the quantifiable utility value they offer? We don't do that in many other venues of life either. Especially when it comes to selecting our friends (not to mention our spouses), applying a cool rational benefit logic is usually seen as highly negative character trait.
You are the ‘ideal’ customer for a snake oil salesman.
Keith
Keith
If Your comment was directed at me, please have a look at my earlier comments on this thread. I have been one of the harshest critics of snake oil salesmen. However, I'm not a fundamentalist "SINAD / dollar is all that matters" type of hobbyist either. I can still enjoy my Linn LP12 while I also have a streamer. I don't loose any sleep if my amplifier does not have 100dB+ SINAD, and I'm willing to invest a bit extra money to get speakers that look nice to me, even if I could get equivalent measured performance cheaper.
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