Stereo Imaging off center - could room treatment help?

[Sokel]

Scrap the songs to detect the problem.
If you really want to be sure check here under Stereo Imaging Tests (and everything else,to fix depth,height,etc).
Read the little instructions,it's really simple.

Edit: Also do the test for Low Frequency (subwoofer) Sound Localization Test if you have subs,sometimes the results are VERY reveling.

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[fieldcar]

Edit: Also do the test for Low Frequency (subwoofer) Sound Localization Test if you have subs,sometimes the results are VERY reveling.

I wish the denon's had a disable/isolate channel feature for this sort of stuff. I know a few AVR's have a ton of cool features on the browser based interface from watching audioholics.

Anyway. @Bimbleton , did you make any progress? It should have been really quick and simple to tweak the speaker distances to see if your center image was caused by the timing being off. As you said, mono music or pink noise would make this really easy.

 

[Sokel]

I wish the denon's had a disable/isolate channel feature for this sort of stuff. I know a few AVR's have a ton of cool features on the browser based interface from watching audioholics.

Is easy to do even from the pc's sound card (with a lot of caution about the levels) if you want to isolate them for the test,all you need is long interconnects.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Have you tried to manually enter the distances in Audyssey?
In my room, I can seat dead center and have placed the microphone in the center too, still Audyssey finds differences in the distances for each speakers.. For example in my room Left at 2.73 meters and the right at 2.87... They are, physically equidistant to the MLP/Microphone position, 2.80 meters, from the MLP... I adjust the Audyssey results manually to have the soundstage centered, resulting in a 2.75 for Left and 2.79 for right.. To my ears: dead centered soundstage... I perform the same for HT, a bit more tedious, but it also works. The room is symmetrical and dedicated but there is furniture on one side and not on the other..
Speaking for my self and it came to me while writing this post : I will move the equipment cabinet to the middle of the front wall...


Peace.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Hi

Have you tried to manually enter the distances in Audyssey?
In my room, I can seat dead center and have placed the microphone in the center too, still Audyssey finds differences in the distances for each speakers.. For example in my room Left at 2.73 meters and the right at 2.87... They are, physically equidistant to the MLP/Microphone position, 2.80 meters, from the MLP... I adjust the Audyssey results manually to have the soundstage centered, resulting in a 2.75 for Left and 2.79 for right.. To my ears: dead centered soundstage... I perform the same for HT, a bit more tedious, but it also works. The room is symmetrical and dedicated but there is furniture on one side and not on the other..
Speaking for my self and it came to me while writing this post : I will move the equipment cabinet to the middle of the front wall...


Peace.

I have a different experience.

If am really really accurate (laser meter) with my speaker (symmetrical in room) and measurement microphone (equal distances) positioning, my speaker distances come out to be within 1cm.

If one does that and Audyssey still shows differences, I would not adjust the distances manually as I would think Audyssey adjust for acoustic non-symmetries.

 

[krabapple]

Yup toe in, toe out, switch speakers. Haven’t tried switching connectors though, that might yield results.

But again, did you try toeing-in each speaker differently?

In my setup, due to acoustically asymmetric side walls (the right wall front corner has a floor to ceiling 'soffit' enclosing pipes) , to get correct imaging (as confirmed with imaging test signals for center, center-left, center-right, etc --- not music), my left speaker is aimed at MLP while the right one is aimed somewhat to the left of it.

 

[fieldcar]

Will try switching connections tonight,

Did you make any progress?

 

[Fahzz]

Where's the music coming from? Check the connections/cables from the player/dac if you use one. I had this problem for months-turns out it was either the ethernet output on my streamer or the ethernet cable, because when I switched to a wireless configuration the problem was solved (fingers crossed).

 

[Bimbleton]

Alrighty, OP here. Bought some room treatment from ATS acoustics. They look lovely! Haven't done anything for the off center imaging.

One of the suggestions worked. The problem is my Denon X3700 receiver. I figured it out by switching the L/R on the receiver itself, and suddenly Ed Sheeran was serenading me from due west.

I still have a year left on the warranty but I am absolutely dreading this RMA process. I’m worried I’ll spend hundreds shipping it out, only for them to fix nothing and send it right back.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Alrighty, OP here. Bought some room treatment from ATS acoustics. They look lovely! Haven't done anything for the off center imaging.

One of the suggestions worked. The problem is my Denon X3700 receiver. I figured it out by switching the L/R on the receiver itself, and suddenly Ed Sheeran was serenading me from due west.

I still have a year left on the warranty but I am absolutely dreading this RMA process. I’m worried I’ll spend hundreds shipping it out, only for them to fix nothing and send it right back.

Glad you made some progress.

Before starting the RMA process. What happens when you listen in Direct Mode? Does the problem persist? Just trying to exclude a badly calibrated Audyssey setup as a possible culprit.

 

[olbobcat]

Your hearing could be off, I had my ears blasted out at the Doctor's office and it made a huge difference in my hearing. I have a similar problem room with a big open arch on the right side. It causes the rear right corner to load. Even though I am two channels it seems like I am listening to an AVR on some songs.

 

[fieldcar]

 

[frangle]

Your hearing could be off, I had my ears blasted out at the Doctor's office and it made a huge difference in my hearing. I have a similar problem room with a big open arch on the right side. It causes the rear right corner to load. Even though I am two channels it seems like I am listening to an AVR on some songs.

Blasphemy! Our ears are precision sensors beyond reproach. It has to be the equipment.

I spent weeks trying to figure out why my speakers seemed to be unbalanced on some days. Then I figured that it might be the streamed radio station I often listen to, or was it just the show I often listened to, with the presenter off to one side. But not always. Then bizarrely, one or two other sources sometimes displayed the phenomenon. REW says there's no problem.

Where's the common mode here?

Then I figured that when the balance is off, it is always to the right. And then that when I'm under the weather, my left ear bungs up more than my right. Time to employ the services of a pair of pre-teen ears: "Which side is the sound coming from?", "The middle". Eureka. Ears.

 

[Bimbleton]

Glad you made some progress.

Before starting the RMA process. What happens when you listen in Direct Mode? Does the problem persist? Just trying to exclude a badly calibrated Audyssey setup as a possible culprit.

100% not my ears. Flipping L/R on the receiver flips the imaging consistently. Plus, had a listen to professionally calibrated setups at an audio store, and things were centered.

I’m thinking about maybe externally amping the Left and Right. Is there an affordable external amp y’all would recommend?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

100% not my ears. Flipping L/R on the receiver flips the imaging consistently. Plus, had a listen to professionally calibrated setups at an audio store, and things were centered.

I’m thinking about maybe externally amping the Left and Right. Is there an affordable external amp y’all would recommend?

Yeah I got it. The question was, if it is really related to a defective amp or is it a miscalibrated setup. Therefore I ask if you listened in DirectMode which bypasses any potentially incorrect Audyssey calibration. A quick and simple check just to exclude the possibility.

 

[Bimbleton]

Yeah I got it. The question was, if it is really related to a defective amp or is it a miscalibrated setup. Therefore I ask if you listened in DirectMode which bypasses any potentially incorrect Audyssey calibration. A quick and simple check just to exclude the possibility.

Great question. DirectMode replicates the off center. I hear there’s a “Pure” ultra refreshing Direct mode, maybe I’ll give that a try.

I’m seriously considering getting an external amp. I love the effects Audyssey/Mult-EQ have done and want to preserve that. If anyone has a recommended affordable external amp (with trigger on/off), would appreciate it.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Great question. DirectMode replicates the off center. I hear there’s a “Pure” ultra refreshing Direct mode, maybe I’ll give that a try.

I’m seriously considering getting an external amp. I love the effects Audyssey/Mult-EQ have done and want to preserve that. If anyone has a recommended affordable external amp (with trigger on/off), would appreciate it.

Ok. Too bad. Pure Direct is pretty much the same as Direct mode - only with the display switched off. Both modes bypass Audyssey.

I hope an external amp will solve your problem though.

For example Audiophonics has very nice power amps even multichannel ones which measure very well. They employ the Purify amp modules. There are also other manufacturers too, which use the Purify. See this forum for measurements from Amir. Maybe search for Purify.

Of course the more pricey alternative is always the Benchmark AHB2.

What is your budget?

But really check if it solves your problem. Maybe you know someone who has a two channel power amp to try first.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

I have not followed every reply here, and I am just dropping in.
But the title reminded me of a similar situation I was in a while back.
In my case it was a reflecting surface that was reflecting certain frequencies to me and something much more silly!
I had my ear wax cleaned! a week later, everything was in focus.
Best hifi upgrade I ever got.

 

[pablolie]

Others already suggested to use good calibration recordings. Whenever I get new equipment I run some reference test tones through it to make sure the basics are taken care of. After that setup, *then* I do do critical listening.

There are many sloppy recordings out there - anyone that expects totally realistic left right balance and stage resolution in all their hidef music files will be in shock with a revealing system - they'll discover how much most recordings suck. And sometimes it is a deliberate choice to not have the voice of the singer smack in the middle - that is very often the case in some very good jazz recordings.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

I have not followed every reply here, and I am just dropping in.
But the title reminded me of a similar situation I was in a while back.
In my case it was a reflecting surface that was reflecting certain frequencies to me and something much more silly!
I had my ear wax cleaned! a week later, everything was in focus.
Best hifi upgrade I ever got.

I bit of pre-reading would have helped you indeed. Just two or three posts. ;-). Let me get you up to speed : When the OP switches the amp connections the image shifts. But thanks for sharing your waxing story