Stereo Imaging off center - could room treatment help?

[Bimbleton]

Hello,
Bought a new home with a nice media room. Roughly 20x11, with an adjacent 10x10 office room to the right of the TV/speakers. Separating these two rooms is a wooden/glass door which I covered with mass loaded vinyl and 2 curtains.

Every time I listen to stereo music, the higher frequencies veer off to the right. In nearly every song!

I’ve tried:
-switching speakers
-toe in/placement
-moving the subwoofer
-rerunning Audyssey XT32

Listening with the speakers much closer to the main listening position (about 7 feet away from the center) seems to help. But I can’t leave the speakers there, they have to be closer to the wall.

Suspect the adjacent 10x10 room may be a problem, as it is quite echoey (still very empty). Even with the door closed, I can still hear music from the main media room.

Any suggestions on what or where to treat? Or what I could do to solve this issue? Thanks.

Speakers: Revel F35/C25/HSU VTF-2
Amp: Denon X3700

 

[Doodski]

Are the speakers placed along on the long wall? That will be the position for best sound and imaging through the room. If they are on the short wall the bass will get boomy and the imaging will be lacking. Have you run a REW test using a calibrated microphone to test and see what exactly is occurring with each speaker and map out the frequency response of each speaker in the room at whatever position you place the mic? REW is free but the mic costs.

 

[goat76]

Have you tried switching left for right speaker terminals on the amp, just to make sure it's not a channel imbalance with the amp?

What happens if you turn off Audyssey?

 

[Bimbleton]

The speakers are up along the short wall. Wife approval factor and all.

I did run sweeps in REW/UMIK-1. Not sure how to export but here’s the left (green) vs right (purple). Honestly doesn’t look too bad in REW but it is extremely noticeable when listening.

 

[fieldcar]

I had the same issue with my X3700H before I bought Multi-EQ X. The first measuring position is where timing is gathered, but reflections or improper placement can screw it up. Also, don't listen to the MultiEQ phone app's suggested measuring positions, just vary the mic randomly in X+Y+Z location no further than 1ft away from your head's listening position.

You can simply match your L+R distances or tweak them while listening to music. Fast car by Tracy Chapman has a really good center image if you need a suggestion.

I'm glad you found this issue, just like I did. It's really disappointing when it happens, but it's a valuable lesson.

 

[Doodski]

View attachment 233986The speakers are up along the short wall. Wife approval factor and all.

I did run sweeps in REW/UMIK-1. Not sure how to export but here’s the left (green) vs right (purple). Honestly doesn’t look too bad in REW but it is extremely noticeable when listening.

That's fantastic, you are very well prepared for this. I just wanted to get you set up for the speaker and Denon gurus. So I will bow out now.

 

[Bimbleton]

Have you tried switching left for right speaker terminals on the amp, just to make sure it's not a channel imbalance with the amp?

What happens if you completely turn off Audyssey?

That’s actually a great suggestion, will try this when I get home. Thanks!

I had the same issue with my X3700H before I bought Multi-EQ X. The first measuring position is where timing is gathered, but reflections or improper placement can screw it up. Also, don't listen to the MultiEQ phone app's suggested measuring positions, just vary the mic randomly in X+Y+Z location no further than 1ft away from your head's listening position.

You can simply match your L+R distances or tweak them while listening to music. Fast car by Tracy Chapman has a really good center image if you need a suggestion.

I'm glad you found this issue, just like I did. It's really disappointing when it happens, but it's a valuable lesson.

Appreciate the suggestion and the song (been trying to find good songs for center imaging).

If I may ask — has MultEQ-X been worth the price? And what difference have you noticed?

 

[Chrispy]

Can you improve it by adjusting L/R balance a bit?

 

[Bimbleton]

Can you improve it by adjusting L/R balance a bit?

Tried. Unfortunately not, high frequencies still shooting sideways. It’s like Celine Dion is running tracks around my basement, absolutely bizarre.

 

[Chrispy]

Tried. Unfortunately not, high frequencies still shooting sideways. It’s like Celine Dion is running tracks around my basement, absolutely bizarre.

It'll be interesting when you swap speaker leads perhaps then....but could be your room rather than electronics, too. Good luck on narrowing it down. This goes both with and without Audyssey?

 

[Bimbleton]

It'll be interesting when you swap speaker leads perhaps then....but could be your room rather than electronics, too. Good luck on narrowing it down. This goes both with and without Audyssey?

Yup, w and w/o Audyssey. The above REW pic is without Audyssey. I’m suspecting the room as well. Just wondering what to treat…

Then again maybe it’s the amp/messed up Audyssey timings.

 

[abdo123]

Can you upload the .mdat here? (put it in a .zip file first)

 

[Chrispy]

Yup, w and w/o Audyssey. The above REW pic is without Audyssey. I’m suspecting the room as well. Just wondering what to treat…

Then again maybe it’s the amp/messed up Audyssey timings.

Yeah could be a fault in the avr....or even some of the recordings. What's the source? I wouldn't know if Celine Dion runs around the room during a song or not myself...

 

[Bimbleton]

Yeah could be a fault in the avr....or even some of the recordings. What's the source? I wouldn't know if Celine Dion runs around the room during a song or not myself...

All sources. Amazon Music streamed, Apple Music lossless streamed. YouTube recordings, lossy. Everything! Very frustrating. Will try messing with the connections, will also try playing stuff back in Mono, see if it helps.

 

[fieldcar]

If I may ask — has MultEQ-X been worth the price? And what difference have you noticed?

It's not a huge difference really, but I'm happy with it. Being able to set a single -0.8dB/octave(-3dB/decade) house curve for all speakers (including lifting the sub's) to match Harman's in-room target is nice. You also get to essentially do 2 curves per save state (flat + reference).

I also believe that you get 2 decimal points of distance in precision for setting the timing, which could be nice for your situation, but as I said, simply tweaking them on your avr should fix the issue.

Not to say everyone else is wrong, but I had the exact same issue where Tracy chapman was 80% to the right, and manually tweaking the timing fixed it right away. Re-running audyssey and making sure you are careful with the mic's first position is probably worthwhile. It's a shame that many people may be running their AVR's with audyssey, only to never realize these issues come up.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Is it moving? (You said she runs tracks) or is it consistently x ft off?

If it is the latter, next to what was said before. Be really particular with the first measurement‘s position being precisely in the middle and equal distance from your speakers. I use one of these laser distance meter. I am not saying that this solves it and I am also suspecting the room, but at least to exclude it from the list of possible causes.

If the former, yes that might be indeed the room for sure.

 

[Bimbleton]

Is it moving? (You said she runs tracks) or is it consistently x ft off?

If it is the latter, next to what was said before. Be really particular with the first measurement‘s position being precisely in the middle and equal distance from your speakers. I use one of these laser distance meter. I am not saying that this solves it and I am also suspecting the room, but at least to exclude it from the list of possible causes.

If the former, yes that might be indeed the room for sure.

It’s not consistent. At lower frequencies, nice and centered. The higher the pitch, the more the singer veers up and to the right.

My goal today is to treat the adjacent room with 2” foam panels. I have some nice 4” acoustic panels coming in from ATS acoustics later in the week.

Appreciate all the suggestions. Hopefully I can wrangle Celine Dion into the center of my basement.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

It’s not consistent. At lower frequencies, nice and centered. The higher the pitch, the more the singer veers up and to the right.

My goal today is to treat the adjacent room with 2” foam panels. I have some nice 4” acoustic panels coming in from ATS acoustics later in the week.

Appreciate all the suggestions. Hopefully I can wrangle Celine Dion into the center of my basement.

Got it. But is it consistent at a certain frequency? Or is it more like an echo.

 

[Bimbleton]

Appreciate all the suggestions. Hopefully I can wrangle Celine Dion into the center of my basement.

Oh my god that last sentence sounds way worse than I meant it to.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Oh my god that last sentence sounds way worse than I meant it to.

Yeah you just instilled a picture in my head I will be working all day to get rid off.