Stereo Bass using subwoofers

[MakeMineVinyl]

Please tell us about bodily sensations when you listen!

I listened to them on my big system, and I've got to say that those are some pretty impressive recordings. There's not as much low bass as I imagined (although there is still plenty!), but what is more remarkable is an immense and enveloping soundfield, especially on the "Train Starting Up And Going South" track. The imaging on this track literally surrounds my entire room to the sides and behind my listening position, and there is great depth behind the plane of the speakers up front.

It sounds like this was recorded in binaural, but I would hope @Tom Danley will chime in with details.

 

[Flaesh]

I listened to them on my big system

How big your big system is? Mine is relativly compact and bass limited; DBA subs make sense of frontal and outdoor-ish bass.
LF content in "Starting up" file

and in listening place (peaks are limited at VLF, I need more subs )

I think bass is mono in this recordings

 

[dualazmak]

Although quite be lated, I just came across with this thread.

I hope my multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier stereo project with L&R sub-woofers YAMAHA YST-SW1000 would be somewhat worthwhile for your reference.

You may find details of my recent system configurations and listening environment in my post here, and latest system configuration in my post here.

Using the very convenient "Mute" and/or "Solo" buttons in software crossover EKIO's output panels, I can easily hear the sound of sub-woofers only, woofers only, midrange Be-squakers only, Be-Tweeters only, metal horn super tweeters only, and of course any of the combinations of these.

As for the stereo L and R input to sub-woofers, I could easily test using the flexible output routing and relative gain control of software crossover EKIO;

case-1: L-Ch to L-sub, and R-Ch to R-sub (gains of L-Ch and R-Ch can be independently adjustable by EKIO)
case-2: L-Ch+R-Ch to L-sub and R-sub (gains of L-Ch and R-Ch can be independently adjustable by EKIO)

At least in my listening environments, I prefer case-1 (with input gain adjustments) against case-2 since I can considerably well hear the 3D stereo sound image/positioning even when only subs are singing; just for example, nice full orchestra sound having the lowest fff contrabass (in right side of the stage) and/or big drum (in mid-left rear of the stage), and also some of nice jazz recordings with clear transient kick drums (in left, right or center); I can better hear/understand the sound engineer's intentions for 3D perspectives of the low Fq sound (20 Hz - ca. 75 Hz) mainly covered by my L & R sub-woofers.

The typical Fq response of my system, as shared here;

And the latest (best tuned?) Fq response, as shared here;

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

How big your big system is? Mine is relativly compact and bass limited; DBA subs make sense of frontal and outdoor-ish bass.
LF content in "Starting up" file
View attachment 156193
and in listening place (peaks are limited at VLF, I need more subs )
View attachment 156196
I think bass is mono in this recordings

Four 18" subwoofers (two per side, operated in stereo), and large horn mains. Before I played the files, I put them in my DAW and inverted one of the tracks and summed them to mono - this confirmed that the bass is mainly mono.

 

[Soundmixer]

You're absolutely correct about everything. Now please go away.

When you own this website, you can tell people what to do. Since you don't, then I suggest you stay in your lane and I'll stay in mine. I will post as long as the subject matter interests me, so get used to it.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Although quite be lated, I just came across with this thread.

I hope my multichannel multi-driver multi-way multi-amplifier stereo project with L&R sub-woofers YAMAHA YST-SW1000 would be somewhat worthwhile for your reference.
View attachment 156209

View attachment 156211

You may find details of my recent system configurations and listening environment in my post here, and latest system configuration in my post here.

Using the very convenient "Mute" and/or "Solo" buttons in software crossover EKIO's output panels, I can easily hear the sound of sub-woofers only, woofers only, midrange Be-squakers only, Be-Tweeters only, metal horn super tweeters only, and of course any of the combinations of these.

As for the stereo L and R input to sub-woofers, I could easily test using the flexible output routing and relative gain control of software crossover EKIO;

case-1: L-Ch to L-sub, and R-Ch to R-sub (gains of L-Ch and R-Ch can be independently adjustable by EKIO)
case-2: L-Ch+R-Ch to L-sub and R-sub (gains of L-Ch and R-Ch can be independently adjustable by EKIO)

At least in my listening environments, I prefer case-1 (with input gain adjustments) against case-2 since I can considerably well hear the 3D stereo sound image/positioning even when only subs are singing; just for example, nice full orchestra sound having the lowest fff contrabass (in right side of the stage) and/or big drum (in mid-left rear of the stage), and also some of nice jazz recordings with clear transient kick drums (in left, right or center); I can better hear/understand the sound engineer's intentions for 3D perspectives of the low Fq sound (20 Hz - ca. 75 Hz) mainly covered by my L & R sub-woofers.

The typical Fq response of my system, as shared here;
View attachment 156197

And the latest (best tuned?) Fq response, as shared here;
View attachment 156198

This song has strong ~30hz bass. Can you sense stronger shakes on the right?

 

[Flaesh]

Can you sense stronger shakes on the right?

I can hear beat on the right.
Then I went close to the left speaker and heard a drum beat from the left tweeter. (Normal mono DBA subs)

 

[Pdxwayne]

I can hear beat on the right.
Then I went close to the left speaker and heard a drum beat from the left tweeter. (Normal mono DBA subs)

How about the body feel part? Do you feel the shakes more to the right? Your mono subs crossed at what freq?
Thanks!

 

[Flaesh]

Cross about 80-90 Hz. Body feel - likely in front of listener, as always with normal DBA.

 

[pjug]

This song has strong ~30hz bass. Can you sense stronger shakes on the right?

Isn't the bass in that pretty much mono?

 

[Pdxwayne]

Isn't the bass in that pretty much mono?

Good that you asked. : )

I was curious and asked about it in the "BASS!" thread. This is where I found the song.

Two different members with different software showed charts that confirmed right is louder.

My response to first member's charts is at: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/bass.18999/post-924661
You can also check the 0 to 50hz chart yourself. Use your big computer screen, zoom in to see.

My response to second member's charts:

BASS!

Yes the first (0-th) channel is left. In DTS/AAC it is the centre channel, but we don't have than in stereo :p Found this while verifying. Thanks! You might have missed the edits I made in my prior reply. In your chart, it seems yellow color can be from a range of about -15db to ~0db. So it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Feel free to comment about the charts. And, check it out yourself with your stereo setup and headphones and see if you can sense a difference.

Thanks!

 

[Pdxwayne]

Cross about 80-90 Hz. Body feel - likely in front of listener, as always with normal DBA.

Based on your feedback in regard to this particular song, I will make this assumption:
DBA in mono, you have even feels for the ~30hz bass.

For me, two subs in stereo, the ~30hz bass shakes more to the right.

 

[pjug]

Good that you asked. : )

I was curious and asked about it in the "BASS!" thread. This is where I found the song.

Two different members with different software showed charts that confirmed right is louder.

My response to first member's charts is at: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/bass.18999/post-924661
You can also check the 0 to 50hz chart yourself. Use your big computer screen, zoom in to see.

My response to second member's charts:

BASS!

Yes the first (0-th) channel is left. In DTS/AAC it is the centre channel, but we don't have than in stereo :p Found this while verifying. Thanks! You might have missed the edits I made in my prior reply. In your chart, it seems yellow color can be from a range of about -15db to ~0db. So it...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Feel free to comment about the charts. And, check it out yourself with your stereo setup and headphones and see if you can sense a difference.

Thanks!

You're right, I LP filtered the track and then the right RMS value is something like 0.3dB louder. I doubt it matters but this is with the FLAC which I downloaded. I can't sense anything weighted to the right with headphones. I don't have a stereo sub setup to try it with speakers. I could set that up but I will defer to others who are set up.

 

[Pdxwayne]

You're right, I LP filtered the track and then the right RMS value is something like 0.3dB louder. I doubt it matters but this is with the FLAC which I downloaded. I can't sense anything weighted to the right with headphones. I don't have a stereo sub setup to try it with speakers. I could set that up but I will defer to others who are set up.

Interesting, just 0.3db? I would have thought there is more based on the charts in the "BASS!" thread and since my stereo setup with stereo subs got very noticeable shakes on the right. Maybe this particular YouTube version is a bit different than the FLAC version? Thanks for checking and confirming!

Anyway, I am sensitive to sound pressure imbalance down to ~0.2db, so maybe that is why I sense a difference with headphones too.
Note: For those who doubt my hearing sensitivity, please visit https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tracking-my-listening-tests.24364/post-822052 so I don't need to keep answering the same questions. Thanks!

 

[pjug]

Interesting, just 0.3db? I would have thought there is more based on the charts in the "BASS!" thread and since my stereo setup with stereo subs got very noticeable shakes on the right. Maybe this particular YouTube version is a bit different that the FLAC version? Thanks for checking and confirming!

Anyway, I am sensitive to sound pressure imbalance down to ~0.2db, so maybe that is why I sense a difference with headphones too.
Note: For those who doubt my hearing sensitivity, please visit https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tracking-my-listening-tests.24364/post-822052 so I don't need to keep answering the same questions. Thanks!

I think it depends on the filtering. 0.3dB difference was with 80Hz cutoff. If I make the cutoff lower it looks like the difference approaches 1dB (but RMS is lower).

 

[pjug]

Interesting, just 0.3db? I would have thought there is more based on the charts in the "BASS!" thread and since my stereo setup with stereo subs got very noticeable shakes on the right. Maybe this particular YouTube version is a bit different than the FLAC version? Thanks for checking and confirming!

Anyway, I am sensitive to sound pressure imbalance down to ~0.2db, so maybe that is why I sense a difference with headphones too.
Note: For those who doubt my hearing sensitivity, please visit https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...tracking-my-listening-tests.24364/post-822052 so I don't need to keep answering the same questions. Thanks!

When you listened, did you filter out the higher frequencies to make sure they were not causing you to sense something stronger from the right?

 

[Pdxwayne]

When you listened, did you filter out the higher frequencies to make sure they were not causing you to sense something stronger from the right?

No. I listened as is. I believe for people who use mono DBA, the shake sensation will be in the middle. So, the higher freq should not matter.

 

[pjug]

No. I listened as is. I believe for people who use mono DBA, the shake sensation will be in the middle. So, the higher freq should not matter.

Are you up for another ABX? It might be interesting to try this:
80Hz LP filter that track.
Make 2 versions of this, one version with R and L swapped.
ABX with foobar.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Are you up for another ABX? It might be interesting to try this:
80Hz LP filter that track.
Make 2 versions of this, one version with R and L swapped.
ABX with foobar.

If you make the files for me, sure. As long as my wife doesn't know I am "wasting time" doing another one again.....
: )

 

[pjug]

If you make the files for me, sure. As long as my wife doesn't know I am "wasting time" doing another one again.....
: )

OK, I am almost finished with my real work today, so I will do it and put them up in a little while. Mind if I cut the track down to the first 1.5min?
edit: Here they are: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1t2wkzjK0GNtX4NOadek45gKRJPVE7xqr
Let me know if you can't get them. This is first time to use google drive public share. I left the long beginning where some of the low level, low frequency stuff is not so mono.