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Stereo Bass using subwoofers

Desmo

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Boutique subs have room EQ such as ARC built in, but I'm not convinced it's worth paying the extra for. Give me "dumb" speakers and "dumb" TVs and I'm happy :)

My Denon, Chromecast, and PlayStation will be the brains of the operation.
Do you run double subs with your Denon? If so. Does the Denon do a good job with that?
 

Manojrc

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There can be a lot of deep bass content in a lot of pop/electronic music. I have heard differences between my system playing flat to 23Hz versus playing flat to 15Hz. One thing we need to remember is that our hearing rolls off significantly when approaching 20Hz which is why you have to play the ultra low frequency content at much higher levels to even hear that content exists down there. And you won't necessarily hear a fundamental note in any music being played at 20Hz, but you will hear added warmth and fullness to the sound overall if your system can play that low.

You can still have an enjoyable experience with a system reaching down to 30Hz. But again the room will most likely wreck havoc on the frequency response below 200Hz. That's why you've got to measure your own system. Room correction CANNOT fight against nulls (dips). The best and really only way to fight these dips is by adding bass sources (subs) into the room in different locations. Room treatments are not effective below 100Hz so you'll need subs to get a flat response.
Thank you. This helps. I see that you have SHD Studio and F12 sub. I was actually planning to get SHD studio and a G22 sub. Does it make sense to spend a lot over F12 for any incremental benefit G22 may give? ( Rythmik is 40% more expensive in our country !! ) My DAC is an entry level Topping E30 btw.
 

CumSum

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Thank you. This helps. I see that you have SHD Studio and F12 sub. I was actually planning to get SHD studio and a G22 sub. Does it make sense to spend a lot over F12 for any incremental benefit G22 may give? ( Rythmik is 40% more expensive in our country !! ) My DAC is an entry level Topping E30 btw.
I bought my Rythmik F12's used on a killer deal, but I have also bought a Rythmik L12 brand new. It is kind of hard for me to recommend the F12 over the L12 as they pretty much do the same thing. F12 is built better, looks better and goes a little bit deeper/louder, but the overall sound is pretty much identical, which is great. The F15 or even better the F18 are going to be better values for the money because you will get much more output. I'd take the F18 over the G22.

But if Rythmik's cost 40% in your country then maybe look at SVS or HSU. You can also try out DIY which really does offer the best value. I love my 18" Dayton Ultimax's. You could build 2 of them for the cost of one Rythmik F18.

SHD Studio is great. Topping E30 is a good DAC. I've compared a Topping D30 I used to own to my SMSL SU-8 V2 and they both sounded identical. I actually had two SMSL SU-8 V2's hooked up to my SHD Studio, but after getting Adam S3V's I was able to ditch one of the SMSL's and hook up directly using AES. But you will need two DAC's if your speakers don't have digital inputs.
 

Manojrc

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SVS is 85% more expensive than US price !! (SB-2000 Pro is $1500 ). No dealers for HSU. So I should stick to Rythmik. Based on your recommendation, I shall explore F15 and F18. Hope it won’t over power the room (17 ft x 22 ft x 9 ft ). which

Also the price of a single F18 is only slightly less than that of two F12s. So which would be a better option? Getting a single F18 or two F15 for two channel music?
 
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Chromatischism

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Thank you. This helps. I see that you have SHD Studio and F12 sub. I was actually planning to get SHD studio and a G22 sub. Does it make sense to spend a lot over F12 for any incremental benefit G22 may give? ( Rythmik is 40% more expensive in our country !! ) My DAC is an entry level Topping E30 btw.
G22 has double the output of F12 in almost the same floor space. So it's great in that sense.

It produces less vibrations. A lot less. If you want tactile response, the F12 has more. If you don't, the G22 is better.
 

CumSum

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SVS is 85% more expensive than US price !! (SB-2000 Pro is $1500 ). No dealers for HSU. So I should stick to Rythmik. Based on your recommendation, I shall explore F15 and F18. Hope it won’t over power the room (17 ft x 22 ft x 9 ft ). which

Also the price of a single F18 is only slightly less than that of two F12s. So which would be a better option? Getting a single F18 or two F15 for two channel music?
Rythmik claim the F15 has only 2dB less output than the F18 at 20Hz. Not sure if I can completely believe that but if it is true and all you listen to is music then go dual F15. If you have any aspirations for HT content then I would go single F18.

I would probably call up Rythmik or hit them up on their Facebook to ask them directly about their products. I really don't see the point of going dual opposed driver if a bigger single driver can match or exceed the output of the dual in a similar form factor. So I would ask them what all the pros and cons of going either way are. And maybe they have a dealer in your country that can help you get the subs a bit cheaper.
 

Manojrc

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So what’s the conclusion? For music, should I go for Dual F12 or single G22 or single F18?
 

Chromatischism

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So what’s the conclusion? For music, should I go for Dual F12 or single G22 or single F18?
These all require quite different levels of spending, and it really varies depending on how much space you have and where you can put them. I tend to strongly recommend two, spaced out from each other if you're after the best fidelity. Some people get lucky with single subwoofer placement though.
 

CumSum

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So what’s the conclusion? For music, should I go for Dual F12 or single G22 or single F18?
I would go F18. Your mains can go low, so they can hopefully help fill nulls that may exist with just having one sub. And later on you can always add another F18 down the road. I had a single sub in both my bedroom and HT for a good while and you can still have very good performance if you optimize placement. You are getting a MiniDSP so you'll have the tools available to get the most out of that setup.
 

Chromatischism

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Honestly, I'd recommend vented (FV15) unless you have a very tiny room. And, unless you really have to reduce vibrations due to other people nearby, or spousal or decor considerations force you to reduce the cabinet size.

Coming from someone who has owned several of the models discussed here.
 

CumSum

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Honestly, I'd recommend vented (FV15) unless you have a very tiny room. And, unless you really have to reduce vibrations due to other people nearby, or spousal or decor considerations force you to reduce the cabinet size.

Coming from someone who has owned several of the models discussed here.
I personally think 18" and bigger sealed subs have made ported subs irrelevant (unless you are looking for 140dB at 20Hz). The output is more than enough for music and HT. And sealed subs don't roll off as sharply as ported subs. So you can end up with much more sub-bass on the sealed sub given room gain. At 20Hz the F18 has 103dB output. Placed inside OP's room, that number will jump up, nearing 110dB. That is more than plenty. And the distortion of the F18 is lower than the FV15HP, especially when nearing its limits.

Here are both Max SPL's compared to one another according to data-bass's measurements.

1624577957007.png
 

Manojrc

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I had a chat with Rythmik folks and this what what they said :

"Speakers with high sensitivity (
In my speaker case ) play loud and you need a subwoofer capable of producing high SPLs to match your speakers output and in this case the F18 has more output than the G22 and G25HP won't be an overkill."

Based on this chat & the general feedback from this forum, I decided to save up more ( means, more time to buy ) to get a G25HP, finally.
Thanks everyone for your help.
 

Chromatischism

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I personally think 18" and bigger sealed subs have made ported subs irrelevant (unless you are looking for 140dB at 20Hz). The output is more than enough for music and HT. And sealed subs don't roll off as sharply as ported subs. So you can end up with much more sub-bass on the sealed sub given room gain. At 20Hz the F18 has 103dB output. Placed inside OP's room, that number will jump up, nearing 110dB. That is more than plenty. And the distortion of the F18 is lower than the FV15HP, especially when nearing its limits.

Here are both Max SPL's compared to one another according to data-bass's measurements.

View attachment 137256
The FV15HP is most often run in 1-port mode, so that result is here:

f86f2330-c8e1-11e8-bf7a-fdf5a79aebab.png


As expected, there is a massive amount more output down low where it counts, making the vented 15" sub much more linear. You would have to buy a 2nd F18 to keep up with it. It will also be more tactile, making it a better choice for movies, hands down.

Yes, the F18 is super clean up higher in the range. It's almost unbelievable how low its distortion is above 30 Hz (but not so good below).

And a final point, I could not fit F18's in my space. I could fit FV15HP's which have a narrow 18" width.

I've owned F12s, G22s, and FV15HPs. I prefer the FV15's, even for music. It sounds just as good yet gives me the ability to bring out much more from the bottom end. In addition, I have an as yet unreleased higher-power version of the FV15HP that gives another dB or two in the upper frequency range. In sum, I think it almost makes the F18 obsolete, except for the usual reasons I recommend sealed: to reduce tactile effects or box size if you need those things.
 
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gags11

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I have a question for anyone that has used Topping or otger bargain DACs. I have a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and about to upgrade. At some point I bought the Matrix Audio top dog, but couldn’t here a difference subjectively. So I returned it.

now I plan to get the MiniDsp studio to utilize Dirac since I moved my speakers into a different room and feel need help from Dirac.

I just bought a Sciit Modius, and it sounds great, but here is the dilemma. I have used the Mytek for 3 years, and it has performed flawlessly. Now this Schiit gives me occasional pops when switching songs or inputs. This has never happened with the Mytek. Do Topping DACs suffer from this kind of bugs as well?

I would love to get the state-of-the-art performing D90SE. But am I going to encounter any quality issues? Would appreciate input.

Thanks in advance!
 

CumSum

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I have a question for anyone that has used Topping or otger bargain DACs. I have a Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ and about to upgrade. At some point I bought the Matrix Audio top dog, but couldn’t here a difference subjectively. So I returned it.

now I plan to get the MiniDsp studio to utilize Dirac since I moved my speakers into a different room and feel need help from Dirac.

I just bought a Sciit Modius, and it sounds great, but here is the dilemma. I have used the Mytek for 3 years, and it has performed flawlessly. Now this Schiit gives me occasional pops when switching songs or inputs. This has never happened with the Mytek. Do Topping DACs suffer from this kind of bugs as well?

I would love to get the state-of-the-art performing D90SE. But am I going to encounter any quality issues? Would appreciate input.

Thanks in advance!
I've used the SHD Studio with two SMSL SU-8 V2's (now I just use one) and never had a single issue with the sound. I don't see why a Topping or Schitt or any other decent DAC would be any different.

The SHD Studio will feed your DAC through either SPDIF or AES. In both instances, it is driverless with regards to your DAC. I know with USB audio and USB drivers weird things may happen, but so long as your DAC isn't defective, it should be flawless with the Studio feeding it.

I had a Topping D30 and it sounded just as good as my SMSL's. And I never had any pops from it, and that was from using it with USB.
 

gags11

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I've used the SHD Studio with two SMSL SU-8 V2's (now I just use one) and never had a single issue with the sound. I don't see why a Topping or Schitt or any other decent DAC would be any different.

The SHD Studio will feed your DAC through either SPDIF or AES. In both instances, it is driverless with regards to your DAC. I know with USB audio and USB drivers weird things may happen, but so long as your DAC isn't defective, it should be flawless with the Studio feeding it.

I had a Topping D30 and it sounded just as good as my SMSL's. And I never had any pops from it, and that was from using it with USB.

Thanks for the input!
 
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