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Steinway Lyngdorf MODEL D

kongwee

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Care and maintenance is a reasonable objection but unlikely given the venue. The panel was 10 professional (i.e. do it for a living) soloists. I know it's hard to accept certain myths that you have held dearly all your life dashed before you, it has happened to me several times, but science doesn't care about our feelings.
10 professional just come and play. They won't care about whether violin was under good care or not. If the violin was taken care off, given then age of the wood. It will suppress all the newer ones. If you play guqin, you can easily find the hundreds year aged wood on the market. People prefer that kind of wood. Because of the abundant of such wood around, won't cost a Stradivari unless you wanna buy ancient one like made in Song dynasty era.
 

preload

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Care and maintenance is a reasonable objection but unlikely given the venue. The panel was 10 professional (i.e. do it for a living) soloists. I know it's hard to accept certain myths that you have held dearly all your life dashed before you, it has happened to me several times, but science doesn't care about our feelings.

Interesting. The experiment described was designed to favor the null hypothesis (violins indistinguishable). I mean come on. Each violinist played 6 violins, had to choose their top 4, then rate them on 3 different characteristics? The human sensory memory isn't that good. And because there were so many violins, it means more trials and higher burden needed to show statistical significance.

Would have been more convincing if they only had two violins - strad vs modern. (And specifically chose two violins where professionals absolutely think have large audible differences). But good enough to convince lay readers.

Perhaps there are some better experiments that exist.
 
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DonR

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10 professional just come and play. They won't care about whether violin was under good care or not. If the violin was taken care off, given then age of the wood. It will suppress all the newer ones. If you play guqin, you can easily find the hundreds year aged wood on the market. People prefer that kind of wood. Because of the abundant of such wood around, won't cost a Stradivari unless you wanna buy ancient one like made in Song dynasty era.
Interesting. The experiment described was designed to favor the null hypothesis (violins indistinguishable). I mean come on. Each violinist played 6 violins, had to choose their top 4, then rate them on 3 different characteristics? The human sensory memory isn't that good. And because there were so many violins, it means more trials and higher burden needed to show statistical significance.

Would have been more convincing if they only had two violins - strad vs modern. (And specifically chose two violins where professionals absolutely think have large audible differences). But good enough to convince lay readers.

Perhaps there are some better experiments that exist.
Both your questions can be answered in the original paper, published in a widely respected peer-reviewed journal with an impact factor over 12. https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1323367111
 

GXAlan

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Roland mirrors Steinway through mathematical modeling.
Kurzweil records a Steinway Model D

Korg
Grandstage = I believe Fazioli
Austrian = Bosendorfer

Nord Piano 3
Royal Grand XL = Yamaha S6
Silver = Shigeru Kawai SK7
(they also have recordings of Steinway, Fazioli, Bosendorfer)

Yamaha is a recording of Yamaha CPX
Kawai is a recording of Kawai EX
 

MarkS

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Both your questions can be answered in the original paper, published in a widely respected peer-reviewed journal with an impact factor over 12. https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1323367111
"In this study, 10 renowned soloists each blind-tested six Old Italian violins (including five by Stradivari) and six new during two 75-min sessions—the first in a rehearsal room, the second in a 300-seat concert hall. When asked to choose a violin to replace their own for a hypothetical concert tour, 6 of the 10 soloists chose a new instrument."

Seems convincing to me.
 

Ifrit

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Just doesn't have to do anything in common with my original statement.
 

DonR

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Then you should reread it. From scientific point of view.
Your premise was that the world's most expensive violin, in the hands of a master, would sing like no other. Professional violinists have been shown to be unable to differentiate between an expensive violin and a modern, much cheaper one.
 

kongwee

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"In this study, 10 renowned soloists each blind-tested six Old Italian violins (including five by Stradivari) and six new during two 75-min sessions—the first in a rehearsal room, the second in a 300-seat concert hall. When asked to choose a violin to replace their own for a hypothetical concert tour, 6 of the 10 soloists chose a new instrument."

Seems convincing to me.
It is interesting that O1 get the highest score for age guessing over the new one. :) Again the condition of all the violin never reveal in the test. I can tell if you use the wood that is aged like Stradivari and make it into new violin, technically it will sound more superior than Stradivari. You have all the latest machine or tools to make them.
 

DonR

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It is interesting that O1 get the highest score for age guessing over the new one. :) Again the condition of all the violin never review in the test. I can tell if you use the wood that is aged like Stradivari and make it into new violin, technically it will sound more superior than Stradivari. You have all the latest machine or tools to make them.
You can tell us that, can you?
 

kongwee

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You can tell us that, can you?
If you are not in the playing, it is quite useless to tell. Of course, if you treat Stradivari as an investment....... that another story. Of course, if you play violin, 99.9% you are out of reach for the Stradivari class. However you won't lack to access any violin that is more playable than those ancient one. I mean do you dare to "reset" those ancient violin without risk of dropping it's value.
 

preload

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Both your questions can be answered in the original paper, published in a widely respected peer-reviewed journal with an impact factor over 12. https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.1323367111
Thanks for the link. I read through the paper briskly. I mean, it was "ok."
It suggests that "old violins" are not clearly and obviously preferable over "new violins."

But it did not say that violinists can't tell the difference between a Strad and a new violim.

In fact, the findings demonstrate that professional violinists CAN differentiate between different violins based on how they sound, and do clearly prefer some violins over others in a controlled comparison.

It's important not to overgeneralize a study's findings.
 

preload

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Professional violinists have been shown to be unable to differentiate between an expensive violin and a modern, much cheaper one.
That's not what the study demonstrated!

What you want to say is that the professional violinists did not consistently give higher preference scores to old, expensive violins compared to new/cheaper ones.

The data indicate that violinists absolutely should be able to differentiate between an old and a new, as indicated by the clustering of preferences over specific violin models. For instance, O1 vs N2 have wildly different preference scores.
 
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GXAlan

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That's not what the study demonstrated!

What you want to say is that the professional violinists did not consistently give higher preference scores to old, expensive violins compared to new/cheaper ones.

The data indicate that violinists absolutely should be able to differentiate between an old and a new, as indicated by the clustering of preferences over specific violin models. For instance, O1 vs N2 have wildly different preference scores.

Exactly. This means that both sound good. Which makes sense. Different and Better are two different items.

Someone may equally enjoy vanilla and chocolate ice cream on a hot day (I certainly do). But it's very easy to distinguish between the two even though I may not prefer one over the other.
 

bkatbamna

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And for the price of a Ferrari, you can buy a lifetime ticket for all types of public transport. Problem is that there is no money for a Ferrari and you do not use public transport.
My goal had always been to be able to afford to drive and park in the most expensive city(or cities) in the world and not have to use public transport.
 

olegtern

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My goal had always been to be able to afford to drive and park in the most expensive city(or cities) in the world and not have to use public transport.
I respect all life goals and dreams, I'm glad you have one.

But still, my message was sarcasm on some fantasy hi-fi consumerism, not about transport.
 

Doodski

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What is that, like $150 US?
Imagine how well she could play on an expensive instrument.
That is ~$14,000.00 Canadian which would be USD ~$10,400.00 but that is in 1990's dollars regarding the price of the flute.
 

AdamG247

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I know. I was joking. Sometimes humor is hard to convey in print.
Use the supplied emojis to convey when you’re joking or being sarcastic :p:rolleyes:. That should help clarify your intent.
 
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