Stax vs. HD800?

[Dealux]

I've seen there are a few HD800 users here and Stax users. For those who have heard both, does the L700 (or any of the Lambdas) have an edge in terms of clarity or detail over the HD800? I sold my pair of the HD800 a while ago because the response in the treble wasn't as refined as I wished it was and it sounded a bit off in terms of imaging (a bit hazy and diffuse even compared to some in-ears due to the dips in the upper treble most likely) and also a bit harsh.

Do you reckon there would be a benefit to owning Stax or should I just get another HD800 since it's such a good value on the used market (or maybe both lol)?

 

[soundwave76]

I have had HD800 and frankly never saw the appeal on them. I actually prefered HD600 and HD700. And then I got the Stax L300 Limited... oh boy, all I can say!

 

[maverickronin]

Did you EQ the HD800's at all when you had them? They become a lot better once you fix the ~6KHz peak.

Stax do have a clarity and openness that even the HD800 can't beat, but you don't need to jump all the way to the L700 get it.

 

[Moonhead]

HD800 all the way.
Stax has piercing treble just like Beyer and Hifiman, hardly any bass or soundstage.
Stax is however best with jazz and acoustic music and voices to die for.

 

[Dealux]

Did you EQ the HD800's at all when you had them? They become a lot better once you fix the ~6KHz peak.

Stax do have a clarity and openness that even the HD800 can't beat, but you don't need to jump all the way to the L700 get it.

I used a bunch of EQ profiles but the more I used it the more I realized how faulty the tuning was. The hollow mids were worse than the HD600 pretty much and there were some holes in the treble that were apparent after you fixed the peaks.

HD800 all the way.
Stax has piercing treble just like Beyer and Hifiman, hardly any bass or soundstage.
Stax is however best with jazz and acoustic music and voices to die for.

Hmmm... the L700 does not. At least it has nowhere near as peaky treble as the HD800.

 

[Moonhead]

Newer Stax might be better, I got rid of my 009 & 007 for several reasons.
Thing is they present the music differently and it will always be personal preference and what genre you prefer etc.

 

[Hrodulf]

For me - HD800. It's a bit harder to choose with round driver Stax, but the value propo starts to shrink. All Stax will have the same ethereal quality to them that the HD800 can't match. However soundstage is vastly better on the HD800 and they can be made to do bass. To get the same low end on Stax one has to spend over 5k.

 

[someguy1]

I have the old 307 and HD800
I would say if they paid me for finding the detail (or fault) in the recordings I would definitely go with the HD800
However "detail"/treble harshness ration is much better on 307

On the good side the 307 treble is very clear and SMOOTH, but the details are not in your face (you can read that as exagerated, you have sometimes put some focus);
(for me) there is missing content >10k, which feels like missing detail,
I mean here that HD650 sometimes sound more refined/detailed in treble than 307 due to that
(to back it up I remember a changstar review were HD6?? was a winnner in "plankton" category, and the upper models of staxes 00X have +5db here)

307 have very good treble response (and they are clear), but they don't necessary will WOW you in terms of detail (it is kind of there);
however they provide that with resonably good midrange (4.5/5), what HD800 do with a bit colourless mids (4/5)

307 however have some wow factor in soundstaging, it is 3D, but in a more proper way than HD800 (HD800 pushed voices on the eyes level, and bass on the chest, sometimes too far). The 307 feels spherical, but it is smaller, bigger then HD600, but not that much

"a bit hazy and diffuse " I would call it (also) large, 307 have normal size of instruments, however it is not pin-point precise by any means; actually the size of instruments to the of the soundstage makes it feel a little bit tense (to not use the word congested), however the 3Dness + clarity makes it OK

PS: I (would) prefer HD800 just for the detail retrival and soundtage as ++

 

[preload]

Funny coincidence. I originally had the 007MK1 and the HD800. I sold the HD800. Bought the 009. Sold the 007. Sold the 009. Bought the HD800S. Then bought the HD800 to modify with the SDR. Sold the HD800S.

If it helps, the HD800 definitely had more treble detail than the 007's, which sounded a bit dark. But there was a very pleasant and listenable quality about the 007's I have never been able to find. I kinda regret selling them. Back then, I wasn't into EQ, so out of the box, the HD800's were too piercing, and that offset the amazing soundstage and detail they introduced to the market at the time. Fast forward to now, I believe EQ is necessary, and high quality, reliable EQ is available through Roon, equalizerAPO, etc. My impression is that the HD800/HD800S with EQ is superior to the 009 without EQ, from what I remember (I never to compare side by side). But I can say that after the HD800/S with EQ (and the Denon AH-D9200 w/EQ), I'm basically done searching for the perfect headphones. Endgame.

 

[Maki]

I remember the original L700mk1 was all around better than the HD800 after equalization but I never did a direct comparison pre-mods. The issue with the new lambdas is all the crap you may have to do them to get them to fit right and sound right. The L700mk2 has muddy indistinct bass and slightly too sharp treble with some grain that is hard to EQ. I'd say the HD800S with EQ wins over it. Once you put in the man hours to fix stax's screw ups - as in, sealing the back of the pads and possibly 3D printing a spacer to make the cups seal against your head - I think they do offer something distinctly different and more pleasurable than the 800S. The bass tightens up and extends properly and the grain is gone. Or you could get a used pair. No seal or fit issues for the 404s for me. They're relatively cheap these days too.

 

[raif71]

Just got a used HD800 few weeks back. Coming from hd600 series, I must say there is a difference in sound. Clarity and soundstage is better on the hd800 but hd600 series has its charm too so it's back and forth using them. Also, no EQ for me. I'm ok for just plug in and listen.

 

[Res-Head]

HD800 all the way.
Stax has piercing treble just like Beyer and Hifiman, hardly any bass or soundstage.
Stax is however best with jazz and acoustic music and voices to die for.

what Stax have you heard? My original Lambdas have far better staging and imaging than any dynas I've heard. And it's bright for sure but not piercing. (I have indeed owned Beyer and agree with you on that front)

 

[andymok]

Stax is very clinical, almost like a diagnostic tool. Aside from the lack of bass, you need to be very careful at the source you choose. The diaphragm is so light and fast, any clipping in the source will also dead straight clip on Stax. 0 tolerance, it's just that revealing.

OTOH the sense of space is superb.

 

[Moonhead]

what Stax have you heard? My original Lambdas have far better staging and imaging than any dynas I've heard. And it's bright for sure but not piercing. (I have indeed owned Beyer and agree with you on that front)

I had 009, 007mkI and 007mkII and have listen to Sennheiser HE1 and still believe that HD800 is the technical better headphone.

Stax is something else if you listen
mostly to small ensemble jazz.

 

[MarsianC#]

I use my Lambda Nova Basic + SRM-xH (yeah, the old 'n cheap one) almost for everything, electronic music included. Not perfect, but not too far from it!
Measurments by Oratory1990 show a fr somewhat near Harman's

 

[Dealux]

what Stax have you heard? My original Lambdas have far better staging and imaging than any dynas I've heard. And it's bright for sure but not piercing. (I have indeed owned Beyer and agree with you on that front)

That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. I felt that the imaging on the HD800 was great overall but not exactly precise. I get better structure for individual images on IEMs. On the HD800, presumably because the response in the treble is a series of peaks and dips, the instruments sound kinda like ghosts. They don't have a very defined position in space but the sense of depth is impressive.

 

[Res-Head]

That's the sort of thing I'm looking for. I felt that the imaging on the HD800 was great overall but not exactly precise. I get better structure for individual images on IEMs. On the HD800, presumably because the response in the treble is a series of peaks and dips, the instruments sound kinda like ghosts. They don't have a very defined position in space but the sense of depth is impressive.

It sounds like you're not a fan of ethereal timbre (which happens when the upper harmonics outweigh the fundamental), so I wouldn't recommend Stax either. You'd be best off with a Hifiman Arya which stages and images very well, but also retains some body to the sound, giving it better physicality.

 

[Hoegaardener70]

Super interesting thread. I have the HD800S and Utopia, and enjoy them immensely. Recently, I had a chance to check out the SR-009S and loved the very different presentation of music. But after some more reading, I am now leaning towards the SR-007 (latest version) since I value bass and like the darker sound signature (bright is covered by HD800S). Part of the excitement to get the SR-007 is also that I find the Utopia not comfortable, to my regret, which I'd therefore also sell.

3 questions please:
1. SR-007 a good choice (I can not audition this), or better SR-009 or SR-009S?
2. I will move to a country with a difficult tropical climate in around 6 months. Really a no-go, or just be very careful?
3. Is the SR-007 as comfortable as the SR-009?

Thanks for your perspective!

 

[Moonhead]

By any chance from dk?
1. 007 will complement HD800 better than 009, but electrostatic is very different from dynamic, so both could be good.
2. I would avoid Stax big time in a tropical climate, they are to fragile.
3. Hate 009 headband, love ear cups,
love 007 headband, love ear cups if newer.

 

[maverickronin]

2. I will move to a country with a difficult tropical climate in around 6 months. Really a no-go, or just be very careful?

Bad idea unless you can keep them in a dehumidified room or something.