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Stax vs. HD800?

Ata

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As Cortes said, there aren't really any alternatives to Stax amps that are tempting.

My subjective opinion is that going from the 252s to the 006t and 727II makes for a better sounding experience, but that could be other factors at play than objective sound differences. When plugging the SR-007 into the 252s and swapping it to the 727II, the difference was so staggering that there really wasn't any doubt in my mind. I did the same with the L300 but can't say I remember hearing any significant improvement. When I sold off the 252s and 727II and got the 006t, I felt very strongly that the L500 sounded better on the 006t, however. But again, this is just my completely subjective perception.

Thanks, until someone measures these units, this is good guidance. If I was in the US, I would gladly ship my 252S to Amir for measurement.
 
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Thanks, until someone measures these units, this is good guidance. If I was in the US, I would gladly ship my 252S to Amir for measurement.

I must add that the sense of improvement from the 252s to the more powerful amps, while to me "evident", is small. I had the 252s + L500 for about a year and didn't have any complaints. I happened to do a bargain for the amp I currently own, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have bothered. Consider too that the 252s takes up very little space, while the more powerful amps takes up a ton of desk space.
 

Ata

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I must add that the sense of improvement from the 252s to the more powerful amps, while to me "evident", is small.

Yes, that is what I would expect, it takes a lot of "talent" to mis-design a headphone amp, even if it is a high voltage one, in today's day and age. I expect Stax to know what they are doing, they have been at it for a long time.

Consider too that the 252s takes up very little space, while the more powerful amps takes up a ton of desk space.

That is a good point, too. I am unlikely to go for a valve/hybrid amp, I can always add distortion and non-linear FR in DSP :D if I really need tube sound, but even the solid state amps appear quite bulky in the pics I have seen.
 
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Yes, that is what I would expect, it takes a lot of "talent" to mis-design a headphone amp, even if it is a high voltage one, in today's day and age. I expect Stax to know what they are doing, they have been at it for a long time.



That is a good point, too. I am unlikely to go for a valve/hybrid amp, I can always add distortion and non-linear FR in DSP :D if I really need tube sound, but even the solid state amps appear quite bulky in the pics I have seen.

Yes, Stax definitely knows what they're doing. The "Stax mafia" notion of needing third party amps is just ridiculous and completely unfounded. Its funny that people like Spritzer will write endless paragraphs of technical garble which actually has no implications on the audio. There is another guy that designs amps, I can't remember his name, but its the same with him. Engineers that says everything except provide any reasonable argument or proof for why their amp designs actually improve sound.

AFAIK, electrostatic amps does differ from regular amps and its not as straight forward. But the 252s is capable to drive the lambda series, new and old. The SR-007 (and perhaps SR-Omega and 009, not sure) requires more power.

My subjective experience (time to get in touch with my inner subjectivist) was that the 006t provided a less sharp sound. Maybe because it can handle higher listening volumes without acting up. I would speculate that the louder listening volume, the more important lots of power is.
 

aldarrin

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I have the L700 (mk2 version, driven by 353X) and the HD800s (mostly driven by an A90, but also ADI-2 Pro and Monoprice Liquid Platinum). Both sound wrong without EQ. Without EQ the HD800s sounds worse than the L700 for music, but the HD800s is better for competitive gaming. Without the Blue Tac mod, the L700 does bass fine but little to no sub-bass (still working on my measurement system, but you can find accurate measurements from Oratory on Reddit). I think once modded and EQ'd, the L700 sounds better (not by much, but busier music / games are clearer). But the HD800s is an excellent gaming headphone and once EQ'd sounds superb (also should note that both are really light, but the L700 looks much more ridiculous and feels less *premium*). If you have neither, I'd recommend neither (because there are better options for anything you'd want to do). But either are superb with a bit of work (but since the Stax requires an energizer, if you really had to choose between the two I'd recommend the HD800s). Having sunk the cost on both, I love both of them.
 

Teroz

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Same here, i got STAX L700 with T1 modded tubes. I got HD800 too, driving them through SMSL SH-9/SMSL SU-9. Both need EQ but STAX take the EQ best. Totally changes the tonality to what you like without any negative things in sound (my bad english hehe).
Even my 30 years old Lambda PROs are better than HD800 but the L700 with blue tack mod and pad mod. No contest at all. L700 is truly a baby STAX 009s and that tells a lot.
Not my Hifiman ananda, not my LCD 2C, not even mighty hifiman arya can beat STAX L700 with good amping. And good AMP is the key.
To me if i want to upgrade from L700 it is to go for hifiman susvara, STAX 009s or go straight to the end game Abyss AB-1266 PHI TC. With 10.000€ AMP/DAC.
Ok i will not talk about the sennheiser HE-1 or HiFiMan Shangri la. Those are not in my list even if thy brings GOD him/her self down to my living room and sings Kumbaya My Lord with angles.
 

soundwave76

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^ If you eq your Stax, why use a tube amp that changes the sound as well + adds distortion? :)
 

Teroz

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No. Ofc not. Tubes give a bit but EQ won't. I bet no one can tell.
 

JamesRF

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I'm interested in classical music, so my thoughts on this might not be relevant to many. But, for what it's worth, I listen exclusively through headphones and use both the SR-009S and the HD800S. I've landed on these two models after many years of experimenting with phones and amps - and without ever really expecting to end up here. I spend most time with the Stax now, but the Senn gets some use too. I think they're both reasonably natural in their presentation of music - although they offer different emphases on the spectrum of natural possibilities. For example, I think the HD800S offers slightly more natural timbre with small ensembles (I think this is a strength of dynamic phones) and it also presents a slightly more open stage. The thing I love about the SR-009S, however, is that it recovers and presents more transient information, which creates I think a more convincing 'picture' of performers in a space - realism in my terms. I don't EQ either, and don't find either too bright - but I think gain needs to be kept under very judicious control! These phones are so clean it's easy to push them too loud (the distortion then occurs in your ears!!). I now use crossfeed always, and think this affects the issue. It affects the amp (I use a Moon 430HA because I prefer analogue crossfeed) and the phones (both the Stax and Senn are improved by crossfeed I think). I use an iFi Pro iESL with the Moon to drive the Stax. I find crossfeed particularly helpful with these phones because it reduces the fatigue that very clear reproduction can induce when the stereo image is unnaturally confined hard right and left. So I find absence of crossfeed less problematic in murkier phones - Empyreans for example - because the total effect is so much less distinct in any event. Combined with a good digital source, these phones offer a degree of realism I never thought would be possible via home replay.
 

Xenio

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I owned a sr-507 with a (i believe) srm-3 back in the days and it really was a blast
However they clearly were not comfortable enough

Now I daily drive a HD 600 and I'm looking at upgrading it. It's stupid but the thing I like the most about them is comfort.

HD 800 is one of the main contenders since it's the direct upgrade of the hd 600 i love. Also I'm pretty sure it will be very comfortable and good for gaming.
However they don't measure that good... But it seems like measurements aren't always relevant for headphones. Well, at least the way we measuret them.

Dan Clark aeon are the second contenders since they kind of measure almost perfectly

And finally... The stax I had was just something else sound wise. I don't know why, can't explain why and I'd like to explain why but it put a smile on my face evertime I used my stax ... However comfort was horrendous
So are the new sr-L better comfort-wise?

Also those amps are really the main problems with stax
 
D

Deleted member 4708

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....

Now I daily drive a HD 600 and I'm looking at upgrading it. It's stupid but the thing I like the most about them is comfort.

HD 800 is one of the main contenders since it's the direct upgrade of the hd 600 i love. Also I'm pretty sure it will be very comfortable and good for gaming.
...

I am with you regarding the comfort... I used to own Audeze LCD4 and due to my big head I was getting so much pressure I could not stand them for more than 30 minutes.
The Stax SR-009 BLK I had were very comfortable but they are essentially speakers. Eventually I sold them because they take too much space on my desk.
I really like my HD650. Best bang for the buck and very good headphones. I also like the HD 800S which I will buy at some point. They are the most comfortable headphones I have tried. Sound quality of the HD 800s is comparable to the Stax SR-009 BLK except the bass (better for Stax).
 

Burki

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I owned a sr-507 with a (i believe) srm-3 back in the days and it really was a blast
However they clearly were not comfortable enough

Now I daily drive a HD 600 and I'm looking at upgrading it. It's stupid but the thing I like the most about them is comfort.

HD 800 is one of the main contenders since it's the direct upgrade of the hd 600 i love. Also I'm pretty sure it will be very comfortable and good for gaming.
However they don't measure that good... But it seems like measurements aren't always relevant for headphones. Well, at least the way we measuret them.

Dan Clark aeon are the second contenders since they kind of measure almost perfectly

And finally... The stax I had was just something else sound wise. I don't know why, can't explain why and I'd like to explain why but it put a smile on my face evertime I used my stax ... However comfort was horrendous
So are the new sr-L better comfort-wise?

Also those amps are really the main problems with stax
My meaning (owning Stax SR-404, SR-009, SR-007, formerly SR-L700, HD800, some Audeze, Hifiman,...) is, that the SR-L700 has a bit more comfort than the older Omegas. For me the best comfort from the Stax has the SR-007 little over the SR-009. But this depends on your head and ears.

I'd over two years the SR-L700 and many people are saying, that's the SR-009 for the poor ones.
I can't agree. For me the SR-L700 has not the real detached Stax sound. With the the SR--009 the Stax feeling comes back...

The HD800 is also another beast. Complete different room feeling and also the heights are not the same. But it's very easy to use an EQ with the HD800. Comfort is really good.
Other option can also a Beyerdynamic T1 V2 (not the current V3).
 
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