Starting to think about my new system

[wandulus]

Hi!

I'm in one of the nicest phases of this hobbie, thinking about a new system. Let's me introduce about the facts on the current one:

-TV and streaming (Apple Music) as sources.
-Wiim Amp (by BT and HDMI)
-Focal Chora 806
-2 x SVS SB-1000
-35m2 room, with an open stairs to the lower floor. High ceilings (it's an attic, from 2.40m to 3.70m). Medium furnished, working on acoustics via REW.

My main reason is that I'm not enganged in the sound, and also I need to reach 85% level on the amp on some cases. Was thinking on this options:

Option A:
Wiim Ultra + JBL 4305s + 2 x SVS SB-1000 (current subs)
Seems a logic one, and the 4305 are on sale at €999, also the cheapest one.

Option B:
Wiim Ultra + JBL 4329s + (optional?) 2 x SVS SB-1000.
A bombastic solution, and having the JBLs in full range, with the SVSs fighting the modes, as a multisub solution.

Option C:
KEF Q Concerto Meta + Wiim Ultra + Power amplifier (Apollon Hypex NC252MP maybe) + 2 x SVS SB-1000.

Any opionion, advice, will be appreciated!

​

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

My main reason is that I'm not enganged in the sound, and also I need to reach 85% level on the amp on some cases.

I assume that means -15dB (on a 100 point scale in dB, 85 on the volume would be -15dB). More power would be my move in that case. I really don't like to go over -20dB/80 volume (before adding gain through preamp or changing the gain on my amp). Which I don't need to do. But which I come very, very close to needing to do.

Your options seem sensible to me.

Is there anything you have heard that does sound engaging? What is lacking in the current speakers? Are you looking for bigger sound stage? A different sound?

If you know what you want, it gets easier to choose, and to help you make a choice. If you don't know what is lacking or present in too large an amount.... the chance of you being satisfied with a new system after the thrill of new wears off goes down by a lot.

working on acoustics via REW.

I very much suggest doing this as well as you can before changing gear. Time learning the room and how different speaker positions work out in the room is well spent. Play with some target curves, add some spice or tone something down. Figure out the details of your preferences for free (time isn't free, but learning does take time, and saves lots of money in the long run).

 

[wandulus]

Thanks for the reply!
I'm not sure what is missing, but its like "not real". Not big or focused soundstage.
Also, a next step is to listen to a couple of system, to know if I could put in words what is lacking in mine's.

 

[Cote Dazur]

I'm in one of the nicest phases of this hobbie, thinking about a new system

From my perspective the nicest phase of this hobby is when you have every thing well positioned in your listening space and can relax and enjoy the music you like.
Talking about listening place and set up (speaker positioning and seat location). This is the most important step, which will bring the most changes to what you ear.
You already have proper hardware, changing the hardware is a lateral move.
Amplifier effect is minimal at best, your speakers for the size of your room and supported by sub woofer are not the issue.
A picture is worth a 1000 words, please show us a floor plan and a picture of your set up.

 

[Power Pop 23]

Thanks for the reply!
I'm not sure what is missing, but its like "not real". Not big or focused soundstage.
Also, a next step is to listen to a couple of system, to know if I could put in words what is lacking in mine's.

Good suggestions from @Pareto Pragmatic,

You may need more output power than the WiiM Amp can provide.

If you have return privileges......

Consider sampling the amplifiers you have mentioned to see if they provide the perception of a bigger and more focused sound stage you desire before replacing the Focal loudspeakers.

 

[kemmler3D]

I'm assuming you have already done room correction with Roomfit or PEQ on the WiiM... The Choral is not a bad speaker so maybe acoustics would be a good place to start instead of new speakers. If the thing making sound unengaging is the room you'll end up in the same situation...

Of the options you mentioned I'd probably go for the 4329 (YOLO) but at that price point you have many options, the Audio First Cadentia, many of the Ascilab models, etc.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

I'm not sure what is missing, but its like "not real". Not big or focused soundstage.

"Not real" is pretty global and hard to define, but size and focus of soundstage is something you can do.

Toe speakers out, more sidewall reflections, and things will likely sound bigger. But maybe less focused. Toe them in, more focused, but maybe smaller.

Move the speakers further from the wall, the depth should increase, closer more bass but less stage depth.

Those are generalities of course. But I would very strongly suggest you play with position and toe, speakers wider or closer together. You don't need to measure for this. Find a recording with a good "sound stage", either one you know or one people talk about as having a good spacial reproduction. Move speakers and listen. Repeat. Find something that sounds as big AND focused as you can (with the trade offs likely involved between the two.)

Then start to measure and dial in with EQ.

 

[respice finem]

IMHO without some proper measurements, it's all guesswork...
Generally, higher SPL and less room interference can be achieved by simply setting up a smaller stereo triangle, thus having more direct sound. Without having to "blindly" buy stuff that may or may not solve the problem.

 

[wandulus]

REALLY thanks all for the time on answering, and giving your point of view.
Here are a couple of photos on the actual room. As you could see, it's not rectangular, and has an open stairs.

Next week I'm having the UMIK back, and I will post some REW measurements.

Of the options you mentioned I'd probably go for the 4329 (YOLO) but at that price point you have many options, the Audio First Cadentia, many of the Ascilab models, etc.

I'm really keen on listening the 4329, as they are €2599 on sale.

I'm assuming you have already done room correction with Roomfit or PEQ on the WiiM... The Choral is not a bad speaker so maybe acoustics would be a good place to start instead of new speakers. If the thing making sound unengaging is the room you'll end up in the same situation...

Yes, this is the last evaluation, done yesterday:

 

[Cote Dazur]

Here are a couple of photos on the actual room. As you could see, it's not rectangular

Thank you for sharing this, in your case that picture is worth more than a thousand words.
The good news is that not being rectangular is not the ussue.
The other good news is that what you don't like is hearing the room.
That is a lot of bare walls in there, you also are seating very close to a very bare wall behind your seating position.
You have work to do, but my guess is that you will not believe your ear once the job is done. litteraly.
Last good news, your hardware does not need to be changed.
I would love to do a simple clapping test in there, it must be spectacular.

 

[wandulus]

Thank you for sharing this, in your case that picture is worth more than a thousand words.
The good news is that not being rectangular is not the ussue.
The other good news is that what you don't like is hearing the room.
That is a lot of bare walls in there, you also are seating very close to a very bare wall behind your seating position.
You have work to do, but my guess is that you will not believe your ear once the job is done. litteraly.
Last good news, your hardware does not need to be changed.
I would love to do a simple clapping test in there, it must be spectacular.

Yes, I will share the waterfall on REW as soon as I could make the measurement!

 

[Cote Dazur]

Yes, I will share the waterfall on REW as soon as I could make the measurement!

The first thing I would do if that was my room is to move the all system to the right in order to have nothing right behind the seat.

 

[wandulus]

The first thing I would do if that was my room is to move the all system to the right in order to have nothing right behind the seat.

That's a solution. Also been thinking of rotate 90º in the same location, with the speakers in front of the heavy curtain that I installed on the current side wall.

 

[JKinAK]

That is a lot of bare walls in there, you also are seating very close to a very bare wall behind your seating position.

Agreed. Have you considered rotating the whole configuration 90 degrees? (I see that you just did)
You’ll get rid of some of your wall problems.
Consider having the speakers and other kit away from that wall a bit- I’d experiment with 2+ meters from the wall.

 

[Cote Dazur]

That's a solution. Also been thinking of rotate 90º in the same location, with the speakers in front of the heavy curtain that I installed on the current side wall.

That is an even better idea. So, that is wall behind those curtains. great news.
Placing the seat in front of that wall, away from it, could also be good, worth a try. You do not really need a wall behind the speakers, you have subs.

 

[kemmler3D]

Yes, +1 to not sitting with a bare wall behind your head. I have found that makes the mids sound horrible. My friend's setup is like that and it really makes the speakers sound worse than they are.

You also have what looks like normal problems with the bass.

When you get your UMIK back, I definitely recommend re-doing Roomfit using the UMIK connected to your phone. Go into the advanced settings and select the MMM (moving mic method) option. Then you should probably cover the whole seat while you move the mic. I recently did it this way and the result is decent, definitely good for the small effort involved. (NB: Download the calibration file to your phone before starting, it does use it.)

If you move the seating away from the wall (turning 90 degrees like you say should help a lot) and get a good Roomfit result, the sound should be a lot cleaner.

Depending on how the waterfall looks, maybe also some absorbers on the ceiling and side walls, but it might be OK without them.