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Starting From Scratch

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Muddywaters

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Thanks Willem, my curiosity for your goals and room requirements helps me understand your desire to add multiple subs and move on to MSO tuning. You got good results with the 8033. It will be fun to hear how much the correction with MSO and more subs brings to your listening experience.

I’m aware of our American propensity for expansive homes ;). Where I live the pace of our older homes are being bulldozed to the ground and replaced with Supersized (5000+ sf) is increasing due to the damage of Hurricane Ian.
 

Willem

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Mind you, the advantage of multiple subs is not just that you can equalize them over a rather wider listening area, but also that they can fill in dips, which you cannot realistically do to any extent with just equalization.
The 8033 allows for wide area equalization (which I did) but in that case the effect in the primary listening position is more limited.
 
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Muddywaters

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Mind you, the advantage of multiple subs is not just that you can equalize them over a rather wider listening area, but also that they can fill in dips, which you cannot realistically do to any extent with just equalization.
The 8033 allows for wide area equalization (which I did) but in that case the effect in the primary listening position is more limited.
I’ve actually had the dip filling aspect of multi subs more in mind. If the flood hadn’t wiped out the room I was planning on getting a Umik and REW running and adding subs with an antimode or DSPeaker.

Starting over entirely is a conundrum and opportunity… lots of choices
 
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Muddywaters

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Making progress!

I’m looking at picking up a SVS SB-2000 Pro and two SB-1000 Pro to go with the Ultra 16” SB I already have to handle things.

@Willem or others interested any negatives to this? Alternate suggestions?
 
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Bob from Florida

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View attachment 265063
Making progress!

I’m looking at picking up a SVS SB-2000 Pro and two SB-1000 Pro to go with the Ultra 16” SB I already have to handle things.

@Willem or others interested any negatives to this? Alternate suggestions?
3000 Micros instead of the 1000 or 2000. The 2 8 inch drivers in the 3000 Micro almost equal 1 12 inch, the box is smaller and easier to brace internally, the amp is significantly more powerful, and as a bonus only 23 pounds to move around. Let your SB16 do the super low bass and the Micros the rest of the fill in.
 
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Muddywaters

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3000 Micros instead of the 1000 or 2000. The 2 8 inch drivers in the 3000 Micro almost equal 1 12 inch, the box is smaller and easier to brace internally, the amp is significantly more powerful, and as a bonus only 23 pounds to move around. Let your SB16 do the super low bass and the Micros the rest of the fill in.
3 Micro’s at $750 each = $2250

1- 2000 Pro @ $750 + 2 - 1000 Pro @ $400 ea = $1550

Through the Outlet Center
 

Bob from Florida

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3 Micro’s at $750 each = $2250

1- 2000 Pro @ $750 + 2 - 1000 Pro @ $400 ea = $1550

Through the Outlet Center
Buy 2 of the 3000's for $1700 and return one if one is all you need. I helped a buddy with the model 2000's that were returned and replaced by SB16's. My experience playing with both - put the 3000 Micro above the 2000's. Sometimes you get what you pay for. Subs like more powerful amps - in my experience.
 

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I am with the OP, no need for the SVS micro 3000. The room is dedicated. With tis complement of subwoofer you will hit single digits flat.
Buy 2 of the 3000's for $1700 and return one if one is all you need. I helped a buddy with the model 2000's that were returned and replaced by SB16's. My experience playing with both - put the 3000 Micro above the 2000's. Sometimes you get what you pay for. Subs like more powerful amps - in my experience.
In what way does the micro3000 is "above" the 2000.. Any 2000 model from SVS? No Way!!! ... If it is a lifestyle thing .. Yes, it is cute but as far as subwoofing is concerned, it cannot compare to its larger siblings...
According to the reference when it comes to subwoofers, IMHO, @sweetchaos Subwoofer Comparison tool:

1678209907506.png
 
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Muddywaters

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I am with the OP, no need for the SVS micro 3000. The room is dedicated. With tis complement of subwoofer you will hit single digits flat.

In what way does the micro3000 is "above" the 2000.. Any 2000 model from SVS? No Way!!! ... If it is a lifestyle thing .. Yes, it is cute but as far as subwoofing is concerned, it cannot compare to its larger siblings...
According to the reference when it comes to subwoofers, IMHO, @sweetchaos Subwoofer Comparison tool:

View attachment 270058
Thank you for the reference. SVS comments on their website against mixing ported with sealed box subs. With the sealed 16” Ultra I already have I was curious with my use case of music only with dsp/rc if mixing them would be alright or a no no?

I have to do more searching here on ASR but are people in some cases mounting subs near the ceiling as an optional location to minimize floor clutter space considerations? I have the idea of locating the big 16” Ultra up front in the right corner and opposite back corner putting a sub up high? Perhaps not as good surface wise though since two of three interfaces are sheetrock/stud versus floor and one sidewall being concrete block if on the floor back left?
 

Bob from Florida

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I am with the OP, no need for the SVS micro 3000. The room is dedicated. With tis complement of subwoofer you will hit single digits flat.

In what way does the micro3000 is "above" the 2000.. Any 2000 model from SVS? No Way!!! ... If it is a lifestyle thing .. Yes, it is cute but as far as subwoofing is concerned, it cannot compare to its larger siblings...
According to the reference when it comes to subwoofers, IMHO, @sweetchaos Subwoofer Comparison tool:

View attachment 270058

SB2000 Pro was the model compared. I could not find the Butterfield review on the web used for the referenced spreadsheet you posted. I looked - found lots of others with high praise. This one has measurements - https://7review.com/svs-3000-micro-review/.
 

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Thank you for the reference. SVS comments on their website against mixing ported with sealed box subs. With the sealed 16” Ultra I already have I was curious with my use case of music only with dsp/rc if mixing them would be alright or a no no?

I have to do more searching here on ASR but are people in some cases mounting subs near the ceiling as an optional location to minimize floor clutter space considerations? I have the idea of locating the big 16” Ultra up front in the right corner and opposite back corner putting a sub up high? Perhaps not as good surface wise though since two of three interfaces are sheetrock/stud versus floor and one sidewall being concrete block if on the floor back left?
I am yet to find a compelling scientific reason for not mixing sealed with ported...
This said, in the Geddes method which is what you seem to go toward by using different subwoofers, there is a loose hierarchy: First sub , the most potent, goes in the front corner, exciting as many of the room modes as it can, the second "somewhere" in front of the listening position on a opposite wall to the 1sr sub, and the third would be placed somewhere in the back of the listening room, a bit off the floor if possible... You could choose the ceiling if you want to. Room modes exist in the 3 dimensions...
I would follow that advice/recommendation. The Ultras would be your main, it is a very potent subwoofer... The others fill whatever ...

Music case is not an issue for multi subs. In my experience, works equally well for music. . It is also important to remark that MSO by default, minimizes the seat to seat variations.. It can be can set in such a way to provide flattest and best response at the listening position.. Another trick is to use multiple listening positions that are close to each other say 10 inches around the MLP... MSO, is useful and very powerful, but using it, the only word that come to mind is "cumbersome". It requires discipline in use. It is not intuitive but.. that is what you may have to pay for what is after all for a free, repeating FREE, extremely powerful software.

Peace.
 
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FrantzM

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SB2000 Pro was the model compared. I could not find the Butterfield review on the web used for the referenced spreadsheet you posted. I looked - found lots of others with high praise. This one has measurements - https://7review.com/svs-3000-micro-review/.
Subwoofers are about output (SPL) , frequency response, and linearity (Low THD, IM and compression) , not much else..
the micro 3000, is 20 dB down with respect to the any of the 2000 SVS models at 25 Hz.. That is waaaaay down...

...

Peace.
 
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Muddywaters

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I am to find a compelling scientific reason for not mixing sealed with ported...
This said, in the Geddes method which is what you seem to go toward by using different subwoofers, there is a loose hierarchy: First sub , the most potent, goes in the front corner, exciting as many of the room modes as it can, the second "somewhere" in front of the listening position on a opposite wall to the 1sr sub, and the third would be placed somewhere in the back of the listening room, a bit off the floor if possible... You could choose the ceiling if you want to. Room modes exist in the 3 dimensions...
I would follow that advice/recommendation. The Ultras would be your main, it is a very potent subwoofer... The others fill whatever ...

Music case is not an issue for multi subs. In my experience, works equally well for music. . It is also important to remark that MSO by default, minimizes the seat to seat variations.. It can be can set in such a way to provide flattest and best response at the listening position.. Another trick is to use multiple listening positions that are close to each other say 10 inches around the MLP... MSO, is useful and very powerful, but using it, the only word that come to mind is "cumbersome". It requires discipline in use. It is not intuitive but.. that is what you may have to pay for what is after all for a free, repeating FREE, extremely powerful software.

Peace.
Your first sentence is incomplete (I think). Do you mean to say “yet” to find a compelling reason. That’s how I’m interpreting it. Thanks.

I’m unlikely to start out with MSO. I need to review Geddes approach for more detail but I’m aware. I will need to re-familiarize myself with REW. I lost the laptop that had all my previous tests. I also definitely need to investigate the options for dsp. Need to understand the options between Antimode, Minidsp and computer/Rasberry pros/cons. Lots of learning…
 
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Muddywaters

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Subwoofers are about output (SPL) , frequency response, and linearity (Low THD, IM and compression) , not much else..
the micro 3000, is 20 dB down with respect to the any of the 2000 SVS models at 25 Hz.. That is waaaaay down...

...

Peace.
I really need to figure out multi quotes

The review which was linked has some measurements of the Micro 3000 whether they are quality or not I’m unable to judge but they indicate the little box can output above 100 dB from ~30Hz which as fill for the big Ultra and say a pair of KH 420’s might suffice?
 

FrantzM

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I really need to figure out multi quotes

The review which was linked has some measurements of the Micro 3000 whether they are quality or not I’m unable to judge but they indicate the little box can output above 100 dB from ~30Hz which as fill for the big Ultra and say a pair of KH 420’s might suffice?
It can work in these but .. will lack headroom compared to the less expensive but more potent SB-1000 (similar size) or PB-1000. let alone the SB or PB-2000
I corrected my previous post.


Peace.
 

My adventures in stereo

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You need sufficient headroom to work with subs, excess is better than lacking latitiude
I am currently using 3 SVS SB 2000 Pro subs and find them adequate for my purposes
Previously tried SB 1000 x2 found them woefully lacking in headroom
 
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Muddywaters

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Unfortunately no improvement in the recovery status :rolleyes: the room sits unfinished. Everyone in Naples it seems is waiting on doors and trim.

I was able to go up to the Florida Expo and listen to some speakers. The Børresen X3 and PERLISTEN™ S7t both were outstanding. I neglected to see if the if anyone had the BMR towers running and wasn't able to find anyone with Kef's set up.

Saw some crazy stuff. I had all I could do to hold back bursting out laughing at times, one room I walked into had fully a third of the floor space covered with amplifiers and a trestle system supporting the cables like the Disney World park train system :facepalm:. No Genelc and Neumann in sight but did meet a nice guy in the pro audio world when I was checking out the RME stuff he mentioned contacts that I should be able audition them.

I'm contemplating heading to Axpona in Chicago next month.
 
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Didn’t get to make the trip to Axpona bummed I had to miss it. Would have loved to check out the D&D 8C’s.

Received my Umik1, waiting on a refurb laptop coming from Amazon so I can load REW and get some measurements of the room. It’s an echo chamber right now but want to find the room modes. Will bring the sub in to test the low end. I also took advantage of Dirac’s sale/introductory pricing on DLBC combined with two channel.

Waiting on the painters to get in and spray the trim.

IMG_0788.jpeg

I bought a pair of Kali LP-8’s as placeholders to experiment with REW and get some music back in my life. Using an an ASR approved SMSL DO-100 feeding it with WiiM Mini optical spdif.

IMG_0789.jpeg

Any suggestions or guidance on appropriate REW tests would be helpful. I’ll save them for comparison as make progress getting furniture and room treatments. Slowly but surely…
 
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