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Start with a new speaker or correction?

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With a limit of $500 to spend for at least the next couple of months, would I be better off buying one good speaker (I like what I'm hearing about the Kali IN-8 v2), or in buying room correction hardware (such as the miniDSP DDRC-24) and keeping my old Altec Lansing Model One speakers and old receiver for now?

Odd question, I know, but I am trying to start setting up a practice "studio" which I'll use primarily for learning electric guitar in the near future. I have a Boss effects processor/amp simulator pedalboard, but no good way to monitor without headphones. I thought of buying a small amp, then of a powered floor monitor, then of a studio monitor — and that would get me closer to having a great playback system. I've been reading around and really like what I'm seeing about the Kali IN-8 v2. I could only buy one, but that's not a big issue for guitar monitoring.

However, this afternoon I've been learning about the importance of DSP and room correction. With my current budgetary limit, I wonder if it would make more sense to start with a Dirac processor and replace the speakers later? I'd rather have an external processor so I can correct more than software playback — I have a mini mixer that I'm planning to use as the system "preamp".
 

stevenswall

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Speakers. Room correction only helps with bass primarily, and the IN-8 V2 has some basic correction DSP capabilities using the switches on the back.
 

abdo123

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Does your receiver has pre-ins? otherwise there will be no way to amplify the speakers with the DDRC24.

I personally didn't like the compression test results of the IN-8-V2.

for home cinema purposes a speaker should be capable of 105 dBSPL peaks (above 100Hz) without crapping out. I would never buy a speaker that wouldn't clear that mark because there will always be (big) room for improvement and i wouldn't be satisfied with my purchase.

But that's a gigantic requirements, and we're different people.

Just my 2 cents.

Edit: just to be clear, it should be fine if you sit 1 meter or so away from the TV/Speakers.
 
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tomtoo

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I dont get you sry. But if you like to go to recording and mixing you usally go the PC route. What means you need good audio interface and powerfull enough pc. Then soundprocesssing is done in PC. Extenal amp you have already, has it no headphone out?
I think the miniDSP route is interesting for people that just like to play music. But if you like to record and mix and play musik it makes no sense to me, there you go the PC route. What means room correction(all EQ ing) is done on the PC.
 
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stevenswall

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I personally didn't like the compression test results of the IN-8-V2.

Some of the bass and treble goes down about 2dB... so some lower frequencies and higher frequencies will only play at 100dB or 101 dB instead of 102dB. What speaker would you recommend at $800 to avoid this? (The JBL 708p doesn't compress like this... Just costs 4x as much, and the vertical dispersion is trash relative to the Kali, or most other decent coaxial speakers.)

Even frequency response, extension, and dispersion should be considered before mild compression like this. If the ventilation is running in a house or the room isn't very quiet, 3dB is a very small volume change to detect, and this isn't even at 3dB in the compression test.
 

abdo123

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Some of the bass and treble goes down about 2dB... so some lower frequencies and higher frequencies will only play at 100dB or 101 dB instead of 102dB. What speaker would you recommend at $800 to avoid this? (The JBL 708p doesn't compress like this... Just costs 4x as much, and the vertical dispersion is trash relative to the Kali, or most other decent coaxial speakers.)

Even frequency response, extension, and dispersion should be considered before mild compression like this. If the ventilation is running in a house or the room isn't very quiet, 3dB is a very small volume change to detect, and this isn't even at 3dB in the compression test.

if you're sitting 4 meters away then that compression test @102 dB becomes @90 dB, which means that the speaker is starting to suffer 15 dB below the peak levels that the speakers are assumed capable of achieving. Not a very good look.

I only mentioned this because he mentioned a receiver which means a TV which means longer distances.
 
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Speakers. Room correction only helps with bass primarily, and the IN-8 V2 has some basic correction DSP capabilities using the switches on the back.

To be clearer, I would use Dirac full-range to correct both speakers and room to the extent possible (I know using it for speaker correction is more controversial, but it seems useful to me).

Does your receiver has pre-ins? otherwise there will be no way to amplify the speakers with the DDRC24. […]

for home cinema purposes a speaker should be capable of 105 dBSPL peaks (above 100Hz) without crapping out. I would never buy a speaker that wouldn't clear that mark because there will always be (big) room for improvement and i wouldn't be satisfied with my purchase.

I thought I would simply turn up my old stereo receiver, leave it alone, and use my mixer to control volume. I would lose the DAC functionality of the DDRC-24 using it after the mixer, but it appears it should work as long as I don't overload it with the mixer output.…

I'm not concerned about the volume limiting at this point — it's a small room, I don't like really high volume, and I don't intend to use this system for home theater. But I appreciate your pointing it out.

I dont get you sry. But if you like to go to recording and mixing you usally go the PC route. What means you need good audio interface and powerfull enough pc. Then soundprocesssing is done in PC. Extenal amp you have already, has it no headphone out?
I think the miniDSP route is interesting for people that just like to play music. But if you like to record and mix and play musik it makes no sense to me, there you go the PC route. What means room correction(all EQ ing) is done on the PC.

I want to have outboard correction because I'd like to be able to listen to instruments as I play them through my system with correction. However, now it occurs to me that the latency of the processor itself may be too high for that to work well. Another option might be to use a virtual guitar amp on my computer, but I don't know if my old laptop will handle that. Might have to try it and see.

Thanks for the responses!
 
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if you're sitting 4 meters away then that compression test @102 dB becomes @90 dB, which means that the speaker is starting to suffer 15 dB below the peak levels that the speakers are assumed capable of achieving. Not a very good look.

I only mentioned this because he mentioned a receiver which means a TV which means longer distances.

Technical aspects aside, I actually was referring to a receiver in the radio-plus-preamp-plus-amplifier sense. I can't remember the brand right now, but it's something of 1980s vintage.
 

tomtoo

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To be clearer, I would use Dirac full-range to correct both speakers and room to the extent possible (I know using it for speaker correction is more controversial, but it seems useful to me).



I thought I would simply turn up my old stereo receiver, leave it alone, and use my mixer to control volume. I would lose the DAC functionality of the DDRC-24 using it after the mixer, but it appears it should work as long as I don't overload it with the mixer output.…

I'm not concerned about the volume limiting at this point — it's a small room, I don't like really high volume, and I don't intend to use this system for home theater. But I appreciate your pointing it out.



I want to have outboard correction because I'd like to be able to listen to instruments as I play them through my system with correction. However, now it occurs to me that the latency of the processor itself may be too high for that to work well. Another option might be to use a virtual guitar amp on my computer, but I don't know if my old laptop will handle that. Might have to try it and see.

Thanks for the responses!
To be clearer, I would use Dirac full-range to correct both speakers and room to the extent possible (I know using it for speaker correction is more controversial, but it seems useful to me).



I thought I would simply turn up my old stereo receiver, leave it alone, and use my mixer to control volume. I would lose the DAC functionality of the DDRC-24 using it after the mixer, but it appears it should work as long as I don't overload it with the mixer output.…

I'm not concerned about the volume limiting at this point — it's a small room, I don't like really high volume, and I don't intend to use this system for home theater. But I appreciate your pointing it out.



I want to have outboard correction because I'd like to be able to listen to instruments as I play them through my system with correction. However, now it occurs to me that the latency of the processor itself may be too high for that to work well. Another option might be to use a virtual guitar amp on my computer, but I don't know if my old laptop will handle that. Might have to try it and see.

Thanks for the responses!

First try. If it not works, optimise computer for sound processing. If it realy not works, take the money and spare it for a new computer and audio interface. The way you like to go is spending money for things you get much cheaper in software.
 

DVDdoug

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However, this afternoon I've been learning about the importance of DSP and room correction.
It's important for recording or mixing, and sometimes for listening, but it's not important when learning to play the guitar. ;) Do you have a guitar amplifier? A "small practice" amp is probably better than "sims" and a monitor speaker.

For recording (and mixing/mastering) you generally want a "dead" space. For everyday listening most people like some sound reflections.

A standard guitar only goes down to about 80Hz so you don't have to worry about the bass below that.

Equalization is free (but you need a measurement mic if you're going measure the room). It's usually better to start with acoustic treatment and then EQ for any remaining tweaks, but of course treatment isn't free. The problem is standing wave nodes where the soundwaves cancel. It takes a tremendous amount of power and big woofers to overcome the cancelations. Killing the reflections with bass traps is more effective.

I could only buy one, but that's not a big issue for guitar monitoring.
That's true and a guitar (or any single instrument) is mono, but there are very few mono productions. At some point you might want to double-track (or triple-track) and make stereo (or something like) that so long-term I'd plan for stereo.

and that would get me closer to having a great playback system.
You didn't say anything about recording.... Does the Boss pedal have a USB port?

I think it's "difficult" to get the sound of a real guitar & amp through a "small" monitor. Even with pro monitors I'd guess most guitar players wouldn't say the sound is "realistic" in the final mix...
 

Hipper

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Would not something used for live music be more useful?

Although I use the Behringer DEQ2496 for EQ on a HiFi system, it's original purpose was for live music. Behringer also do other gear that may be suitable?
 
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