Starkrimson™ Integrated Stereo Amplifier Launched

[SIY]

Amir is doing it in almost every review?

The first three power amp reviews of his that I pulled up had nothing of the kind. Can you give me some examples of an amp review of his which does?

 

[orchardaudio]

...where it contains a specification unfamiliar to me: "Frequncy Reponse"

Thank you fixed.

 

[pozz]

It looks like a pretty nice barebones system for a PC. I typically ignore marketing shtick, since it's marketing. But you appear to be going for the 'audio science' technically oriented market. With that in mind I'd ask:

How much less harshness?
How much cleaner are the highs?
How much better is the transparency?
How much higher is the detail?

Than what?

I'm not trying to be a crank but when you make these sorts of subjective claims, along with objective data-driven charts and graphs, I think the questions are appropriate. Anyhow, like I said, the product appears to be a pretty nice barebones system for an all digital PC based front end. Not exactly cheap, considering the industrial 'screwed together in my basement' look, but there are more expensive options out there that probably offer less, so we have to keep it in context.

These things are very difficult to quantify as to exactly how much. There are many articles explaining the benefits of GaN over traditional silicon transistors.

GaN transistors allow you to have a much smaller dead time, this increases THD performance because the amplifier has control of the output a larger percentage of the time.

GaN transistors are also capable of switching much faster, in the case of my amps ~750kHz vs 300 to 400kHz for traditional silicon transistors. This gives the amplifier a higher bandwidth and allows for a filter design that does not encroach into the audio band.

GaN transistors have no reverse-recovery charge (Qrr), this leads to much better SNR performance.

There are other benefits to GaN as well, like increased efficiency which leads to lower temperatures and therefore less thermal noise.

To provide a quantifiable number one would have to make two amplifiers one with GaN transistors and one with traditional silicon ones, with everything else being equal. This is not so simple a task. I would say this is not even possible. For example, I would not be able to replace the GaN transistors in my amp with silicon ones the amp would not function.

I think @anmpr1 is right. Measurements are just that. As are technical parameters of parts. Building a unit based on them and then reverting to common audiophile lingo for advertising is inconsistent.

Why not leave it at this?

Starkrimson is one of a few integrated amplifiers on the market which uses gallium nitride (GaN) technology. GaN transistors provide many performance benefits over their traditional silicon counterparts because of their increased slew rate, reduced ringing, faster switching, and faster overload recovery.

 

[patate91]

The first three power amp reviews of his that I pulled up had nothing of the kind. Can you give me some examples of an amp review of his which does?[/QUOTE

The first three power amp reviews of his that I pulled up had nothing of the kind. Can you give me some examples of an amp review of his which does?

I was not particulary pointing at amplifiers reviews

 

[orchardaudio]

I think @anmpr1 is right. Measurements are just that. As are technical parameters of parts. Building a unit based on them and then reverting to common audiophile lingo for advertising is inconsistent.

Why not leave it at this?

I have also received a lot of feedback from customers that they don't understand all the technical stuff and would like to see something that makes more sense to them. So who do I listen to?

 

[SIY]

I have also received a lot of feedback from customers that they don't understand all the technical stuff and would like to see something that makes more sense to them.

"What this unit does is make a small signal larger, and nothing else." That's the highest praise I could give an amplifier.

 

[SIY]

I was not particulary pointing at amplifiers reviews .

Perhaps you could then put your complaints in threads that aren't about power amplifiers?

 

[patate91]

Perhaps you could then put your complaints in threads that aren't about power amplifiers?

It was not a complain, just a remark.

Someone told Orchardaudio to not put subjective descriptions, does it deserve a complain mention?

 

[patate91]

@orchardaudio congratulations for your superb built.

Measurements don't lie this is a top performance product.

 

[SIY]

It was not a complain, just a remark.

Someone told Orchardaudio to not put subjective descriptions, does it deserve a complain mention?

You're using the word "subjective" to mean "without any basic controls." Two different things.

The one Orchard product I've had experience with was indeed an excellent performer, and likely this will be as well. Leo is a very skilled engineer. That said, it's unfortunate and (in my mind) sad that the marketing claims are what they are. Your remarks about Amir's reviews seem rather gratuitous and irrelevant.

 

[patate91]

You're using the word "subjective" to mean "without any basic controls." Two different things.

The one Orchard product I've had experience with was indeed an excellent performer, and likely this will be as well. Leo is a very skilled engineer. That said, it's unfortunate and (in my mind) sad that the marketing claims are what they are. Your remarks about Amir's reviews seem rather gratuitous and irrelevant.

That's not my intention, I don't understand why you are guessing my intentions with your passive agressive attitude.

Subjective means subjectives. Basic control has nothing to do here. Orchardaudio has to sell his amplifier. He vas to sell it to non-technical persons. He's not doing science or a product review.

 

[SIY]

Subjective means subjectives. Basic control has nothing to do here.

If you're happy with claims made without supporting evidence, fine. I am not.

 

[patate91]

If you're happy with claims made without supporting evidence, fine. I am not.

Je shared his measurements ......

 

[SIY]

Do you get dizzy moving the goalposts around so quickly?

 

[Webninja]

Is this rack mountable? I couldn’t find the sizes, but it looks like it might be ~19” wide and about 1U.

 

[orchardaudio]

Is this rack mountable? I couldn’t find the sizes, but it looks like it might be ~19” wide and about 1U.

Size: 18.7" (47.5cm) x 8.9" (22.5cm) x 2.1" (5.3cm) -- without binding posts
Weight: 11lbs (5kg)

It is 1U high without the rubber feet which make it 2.1 inches tall.

This is all under specifications on this page here:
https://orchardaudio.com/starkrimson

 

[pozz]

I have also received a lot of feedback from customers that they don't understand all the technical stuff and would like to see something that makes more sense to them. So who do I listen to?

Well advertising has two functions: to inform and to persuade. I wouldn't say you are limited to one type of language when attempting to make your technical work meaningful. Otherwise it just adds to the current dilemma. I think the key is that the data is on your side. Potential customers can say "prove how good it is", and you have proof.

Let's see. After noting the advantages of GaN transistors, you could say:

Outperforms majority of intergrated amplifiers. (Insert something here about why this is true, using data.) Designed for longevity and reliability. Direct access to engineer for support and troubleshooting. (Basically what you already used in your defense in other threads on ASR. You have a lot of plusses going for you of which consumers likely aren't aware or don't fully appreciate.)

Subjective means subjectives. Basic control has nothing to do here. Orchardaudio has to sell his amplifier. He vas to sell it to non-technical persons. He's not doing science or a product review.

You could say that underlying advertising is a kind of greed that turns persuasion into manipulation, allowing any kind of pitch as long as it does its work. I'm not saying that @orchardaudio is in this camp. But he has hit against a problem.

There was an old thread about companies that are both successful and honest in advertising. Bryston and Benchmark come to mind. Both of these companies even go out of their way to fight the nonsense.

One thing you might not know is that in other industries this kind of language is explicitly illegal because of its links to fraud. Finance for example is heavily regulated for large accredited investors, and some of that regulation is now seen gaining ground in the retail base for everyday sorts of investment (i.e., small amounts into commingled fund products). [Edit: The reason it is gaining ground is because of highly publicized frauds and work by investigative journalists and consumer protection lobbies to show the extent of the problem.] Ad language is subject to fines and administrative actions like losing licensing and ability to do business. Not to say that what's out there doesn't bend the rules gratuitously (e.g., performance figures are based on certain misleading assumptions).

We don't have the same kinds of institutional protections in audio. But we can help.

 

[patate91]

Well advertising has two functions: to inform and to persuade. I wouldn't say you are limited to one type of language when attempting to make your technical work meaningful. Otherwise it just adds to the current dilemma. I think the key is that the data is on your side. Potential customers can say "prove how good it is", and you have proof.

Let's see. After noting the advantages of GaN transistors, you could say:



You could say that underlying advertising is a kind of greed that turns persuasion into manipulation, allowing any kind of pitch as long as it does its work. I'm not saying that @orchardaudio is in this camp. But he has hit against a problem.

There was an old thread about companies that are both successful and honest in advertising. Bryston and Benchmark come to mind. Both of these companies even go out of their way to fight the nonsense.

One thing you might not know is that in other industries this kind of language is explicitly illegal because of its links to fraud. Finance for example is heavily regulated for large accredited investors, and some of that regulation is now seen gaining ground in the retail base for everyday sorts of investment (i.e., small amounts into commingled fund products). [Edit: The reason it is gaining ground is because of highly publicized frauds and work by investigative journalists and consumer protection lobbies to show the extent of the problem.] Ad language is subject to fines and administrative actions like losing licensing and ability to do business. Not to say that what's out there doesn't bend the rules gratuitously (e.g., performance figures are based on certain misleading assumptions).

We don't have the same kinds of institutional protections in audio. But we can help.

I fully agree with you.

Just for information here's what Benchmark says about their amp :

" The frequency response of the AHB2 extends beyond 200 kHz. With the AHB2, you will discover previously overlooked nuances, dynamics, and detail in your favorite recordings and experience the full potential of the latest high-resolution 24-bit PCM and 1-bit DSD audio formats.

EXPERIENCE THE EMOTION
The musical details and emotion captured on today's finest High-Resolution-Audio recordings can only be fully appreciated when every component in the signal chain is capable of true high-resolution performance. Power amplifiers are a weak link in most audio systems. Most power amplifiers are well matched to the limitations of the CD format, but they fall well short of the capabilities of high-resolution formats. In contrast, the revolutionary AHB2 was specifically designed to deliver true high-resolution performance. "

Again I fully agree that there's a lot of BS marketing, too much. Orchardaudio doesn't seems to fit in that. IMO since he annonced this amplifier here I found the people a little bit rude or very "critique".

 

[pozz]

I fully agree with you.

Just for information here's what Benchmark says about their amp :

" The frequency response of the AHB2 extends beyond 200 kHz. With the AHB2, you will discover previously overlooked nuances, dynamics, and detail in your favorite recordings and experience the full potential of the latest high-resolution 24-bit PCM and 1-bit DSD audio formats.

EXPERIENCE THE EMOTION
The musical details and emotion captured on today's finest High-Resolution-Audio recordings can only be fully appreciated when every component in the signal chain is capable of true high-resolution performance. Power amplifiers are a weak link in most audio systems. Most power amplifiers are well matched to the limitations of the CD format, but they fall well short of the capabilities of high-resolution formats. In contrast, the revolutionary AHB2 was specifically designed to deliver true high-resolution performance. "

Again I fully agree that there's a lot of BS marketing, too much. Orchardaudio doesn't seems to fit in that. IMO since he annonced this amplifier here I found the people a little bit rude or very "critique".

That first paragraph about the AHB2 is disappointing. It could easily be cut out without losing any of the persuasive power of the next IMO. Here was the thread I had in mind: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...nsparent-honest-marketing-as-a-priority.7476/

And I agree we should be more courteous to manufacturers. I hope you didn't feel under attack @orchardaudio.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Nice. But would be much nicer if it were 4 channels and included a DSP/Crossover w Dirac Live for say $3k.